Epiphone pickups

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
I have two pickups in an Epiphone Les Paul Special II. The pickups seem to work well enough but, I would like to tone them down a bit.
Would changing the magnets to ALNICO help at all ?? The magnets are the ceramic #8's. I think that is why they are so hot.
I know the coils being over wound have a bearing on the output. However wouldn't using a weaker magnet help a bit ??
I ask this on another forum but was given the standard answer "change them". What would a solution be if that were not an option ??

[big_teee]

I always make new pickups with new good parts and throw the old ones in a box.(I have a box full of stuff like that)
If they have a nickel baseplate, and a nickel cover, no brass, or no cover they might be OK to rewind.
If they are worthy of a rewind then I would change the magnets to A2, or A5.
GL,
T
**Anyone have any suggestions, please jump in!

[SonnyW]

It wold be a piece of cake to change them out to say Alnico 2 or 5 and it would be reversible and not cost a lot. I'd say that would help the tone keep from being so edgy. I do think the ceramics can sound really brittle and edgy sometimes but not always. Of course if those were mine I would probably just wind something new, but a magnet swap could definitely be worth trying IMO. If you don't have some A2's already laying around then they would come in handy at some point I would think, if you're hanging around here anyhow. They may be overwound, but that's only one factor in the tone. I have made some nice sounding but pretty highly overwound ones with Alnico mags for my customers that wanted them. When the volume wasn't dimed they cleaned up pretty good. Another easy experiment would be to swap out the polescrews.

[Steve A.]

I don't have a winder but I have changed magnets in dozens of pickups which makes them a lot more usable, at least for me (I like vintage sounds.) For the Epiphones unless the DCR was up around 12k it was worth a shot to replace the stock magnet (ceramic or A5) with one of the sixty A2 magnets I bought from Wolfe here about 10 years ago when he needed to unload part of a 1,000 lot order (my assumption.)

Note: While it is not usually worth their time to sell "onesies and twosies" pickup makers might consider selling off a good-sized chunk of a bulk order to help cash flow. I would expect 50-lot and 100-lot prices to be considerably higher than 1,000-lot prices but much better than "onesies and twosies" so it would be win-win.

If there is a demand for it perhaps we could start a stickered thread here or in the Pickup Makers forum titled something like "Overstocks"...

Whaddaya think? Winders selling pickups are already dealing with shipping and payments so it wouldn't be something entirely different from what they are already doing. (This would have been out of the question in the years before PayPal and prepaid shipping labels printed at home... too much of a hassle!)

Steve Ahola

P.S. For the past few years Epiphones retailing for $300+ are often shipping with fairly decent Asian clones of Gibson Classic 57 and Burstbucker pickups... a big improvement over the G&B ones I remember in the past.

[big_teee]

I don't have a winder but I have changed magnets in dozens of pickups which makes them a lot more usable, at least for me (I like vintage sounds.) For the Epiphones unless the DCR was up around 12k it was worth a shot to replace the stock magnet (ceramic or A5) with one of the sixty A2 magnets I bought from Wolfe here about 10 years ago when he needed to unload part of a 1,000 lot order (my assumption.)

Note: While it is not usually worth their time to sell "onesies and twosies" pickup makers might consider selling off a good-sized chunk of a bulk order to help cash flow. I would expect 50-lot and 100-lot prices to be considerably higher than 1,000-lot prices but much better than "onesies and twosies" so it would be win-win.

If there is a demand for it perhaps we could start a stickered thread here or in the Pickup Makers forum titled something like "Overstocks"...

Whaddaya think? Winders selling pickups are already dealing with shipping and payments so it wouldn't be something entirely different from what they are already doing. (This would have been out of the question in the years before PayPal and prepaid shipping labels printed at home... too much of a hassle!)

Steve Ahola

P.S. For the past few years Epiphones retailing for $300+ are often shipping with fairly decent Asian clones of Gibson Classic 57 and Burstbucker pickups... a big improvement over the G&B ones I remember in the past.

I have the Parts Suppliers Sticky, you can put it in there if you want to.
I try to only sticky threads here, that are high usage.
T

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
Well today I got some different pole pieces. They came from a different pickup. Also a ALNICO magnet. One of the problems I found upon disassembly of the Epiphone pickup was that the screws were not completely bottomed out in the pickup. It seems the pickup was potted with the screw heads protruding above the bobbin.
I still was not able to find any of the "Secret Formula Possom Pole Screws" but the search goes on. Any way they are M3 X 0.5 so it may take a while. I found some Filister head gun screws but they were black so I presume they would have high carbon content and be unsuitable.
Also when I disassembled the pickups, they didn't seem any junkier than any other pickups I have ran across. So I don't see what everyone is talking about.

[LtKojak]

Hello,
Well today I got some different pole pieces. They came from a different pickup. Also a ALNICO magnet. One of the problems I found upon disassembly of the Epiphone pickup was that the screws were not completely bottomed out in the pickup. It seems the pickup was potted with the screw heads protruding above the bobbin.
I still was not able to find any of the "Secret Formula Possom Pole Screws" but the search goes on. Any way they are M3 X 0.5 so it may take a while. I found some Filister head gun screws but they were black so I presume they would have high carbon content and be unsuitable.
Also when I disassembled the pickups, they didn't seem any junkier than any other pickups I have ran across. So I don't see what everyone is talking about.

Those Epi p'ups are made with the cheapest of components and wound on a OEM bulk transformer winding machine.

The eddy current inducing brass baseplate will most probably kill all harmonic content, and as those p'ups were designed for ceramic mags, the wind itself is probably dark to start with.

The only possible solution for make'em at least decent-sounding is to change baseplate with a nickelsilver one, 1018 screws, 1215 slugs and 1018 keeper bar just to make an alnico mag work its "magic", so to speak.

All this will cost you about what a second-hand Duncan set of p'ups, assuming you'll be able to find all elements made for the metric system. That's why most advised you to just chang'em, as it's basically putting lipstick on a pig or as I like to call it, an "exercise in futility". Good luck!

[big_teee]

Exactly what Pepe said +1.
Here in my shop, any OEM humbucker pickup that has a brass baseplate, gets replaced and thrown in the box.
The components are unknown, and if I'm going to all that trouble I just replace them.
If you don't wind coils, then you might fool with the magnet and baseplate swap?
If you do wind, then why bother?
With that said, you are welcome to do whatever you like.
T

[mr fab]

whats the problem with brass baseplates? dimarzio has been using them for years!! hehe

(yeah i know; i'm asking for trouble....but i dont like them myself either)

[big_teee]

A lot of Dimarzee's use Ceramic magnets, and brass helps tame the harshness of the C8s.
I also suspect they use them to cut cost.
Since D. is more or less a dirty word with all of their trademark and patent issues, I never look at their models.
Seymour Duncan, has always been my role model.
Don't think you will find much brass used by S.D.
As a rule Brass is undesirable for baseplates, for humbuckers.
When I started winding I reused a lot of OEM import parts.
You can make them sound a bit better.
As mentioned earlier, if you are not particular in your results, then go for it.
I want all of my pickups to sound optimum, and I use the best parts I can find.
There are many nickel pickup kits at affordable prices, that help achieve that.
When you ask questions, and for advice here, Most of us, try to give the best advice to our abilities, without compromising tone.
Thanks for the input everyone.
T

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
I was over on another forum. I happened across a UTube video of a demonstration of one of the PAF reproductions. Another person compared the sound to a 700T Epiphone ceramic pickup. Having that pickup in a Epiphone Les Paul Special II in the next room I did the comparison, and damn if he wasn't right, on comparing it to that video.
To be fair on the video the guitar had the pickup in the neck position, and no pickup at all in the bridge position. Maybe that threw the tone off, but I don't know for sure.
That just confirms to me that the reason most people are sucked into the myth is because they have never had an opportunity to even hear an actual PAF. If that video is even a somewhat accurate rendition of a PAF then a lot of people are in for a real dissipointment.
So for me the never ending search for a mystical magical sound is over. The claims about magical magnets, mystical wire, the exact bobbins, scatter winding over hand guided, chemical composition of pole pieces, the exact pitch of the threads on pole screws, and which phase of the moon the pickups should be wound in.
The pickups in question were from a boutique winder. I am sure he will remember making a video with only one pickup in the neck position of a guitar.

[big_teee]

It was your thread and your questions.
Not sure what you have proved in this process.
We were just trying to answer your questions.
In videos, all things are subjective.
If you wind your own pickups, then you know what they sound like.
If this is just a thread to tell us that the brass baseplate ceramic magnet OEM epiphone P/U is better than a PAF?
Then this thread may need to be, closed, moved or somewhere else.
Since it has nothing to do with winding, and making pickups, as this is the intent of this forum!
T

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
I did not say it was better than. I am saying if the sound is equivalent to pickups costing hundreds of dollars, then what is the point.
You are the mod, If you want to move it, close it or both I have no control over that. I didn't mean to so blasphemous talking about the Holy Grail of pickups.

[big_teee]

Since this thread has accomplished little, turned a tad bit argumentative, and has nothing to do with winding?
I closed it.
T