58 Pre CBS Openess and Shimmer!

[omni7]

Hello everyone, Hope you are all well. I am a bit of a pickup addict and I'm increasingly drawn towards the art of pickup making to try and achieve the particularly characteristics of a pickup I own. The pickup in question is, I believe a 1958 Pre CBS Strat neck pickup. It sounds so good I want to reproduce that sound for the middle pickup as well. I have tryed a lot of great pickups pickups which sound fine but none quite gets whats going on here. My ears, if they are to be believed, tell me that getting the overall tone of a 'pickup era' is one thing while getting the subtle nuances of many 'Pre CBS' pickups is another. I have tryed many winders who's pickups have a detailed harmonic content and good dynamics. But none I have tried as yet had have got the inherent openess, chime and almost 3d shimmer that mine has. My neck pickup also has much more touch sensitivity than any others I have tried. Would any one like to 'chime in' on how to I might with practice get that airiness shimmer and incredible almost ac30 vox like shimmer in any winds I might attempt?
I know i'm asking a lot as the pre cbs sound for many is the holy grail, however any help that could be offered on my quest would be very appreciated.
Many thanks
Jon

[mozz]

Tell us the resistance and Inductance readings.

[Helmholtz]

An original 1958 strat PU should have reversed magnet polarity (north up) and reversed phase output compared to modern standard.

For winding specs, see here: http://www.guitarhq.com/pickups.html

With a Gauss/Tesla meter you might be able to verify that the magnet material is A5 (or not).

I would like to see pictures to compare to my 1959 PUs.

[omni7]

Thanks for your reply Mozz. I measure the resistance out of the guitar a short while back and it was n 6.1k but at the time i did not measure the in Inductance.
Measure resistance and inductance in my guitar through the socket just now (not ideal but the reading were) Resistance - 5.75K Inductance in henries was 1.818

[Helmholtz]

Thanks for your reply Mozz. I measure the resistance out of the guitar a short while back and it was n 6.1k but at the time i did not measure the in Inductance.
Measure resistance and inductance in my guitar through the socket just now (not ideal but the reading were) Resistance - 5.75K Inductance in henries was 1.818

Inductance measurement with controls connected is rather meaningless.
My '59 neck PU measures R= 5.9k, L= 2.44H@1kHz (out of the guitar).

[omni7]

Hi Helmholtz I am not sure pictures would do you any good the pickup I got it reasonably cheap because had been cleaned up and the magnets slightly filed to get rid of the corrosion. However the man selling it had a 62 strat with 2 62 south up pickups and wanted to get sell this north up pickup to get an orginal 62 to complete his strat. He sent me some clips it sounded amazing I got it played it and it sounds amazing. So i have no reason to believe its not a 58. Infact i think id love it if it were a fake so i could buy some more! As for the specs Im not sure its just a technically issue. I mean i bought a Klien 58 that is wound to the meticulous standards of the orginals and still that does not have the openess or dynamics that this pickup has. The closest in terms of huge spongy tube like dynamics is the Abigail ybarra winds i have. But even those sets do not have that big hollow spacious shimmering sound (i also here this hollowness in early PAFs) Perhaps the early strat pickups were potted very lightly?

[omni7]

Yes i agree Helmholtz out of the guitar i only have the resistance 6.1K

[Helmholtz]

Hi Helmholtz I am not sure pictures would do you any good the pickup I got it reasonably cheap because had been cleaned up and the magnets slightly filed to get rid of the corrosion.

Still curious to see pictures. Would like to check magnet staggering, wire colour, winding pattern and bottom plate.

Perhaps the early strat pickups were potted very lightly

I had to re-pot my 59 neck PU for full paraffin penetration because the winding was loose inside causing microphony. This increased self capacitance by 13pF, sound stayed the same.

[omni7]

I have been told im not autherised to upload attachments Helmholtz

[Helmholtz]

I have been told im not autherised to upload attachments Helmholtz

AFAIK, this should change after your forth post or so.

[omni7]

Ok

[big_teee]

Hello:
Some of the Pre CBS pickups used the Heavy Formvar wire.
It has a thicker insulation and has that bell ringing tone characteristic.
The CBS pickups used Plain Enamel insulation.
You can duplicate the HFV sound with either HFV, or HSPN wire, which is easy to find.
Good magnets, height between the flats is also important.
Here's a the specs of a 55, given by our member Jim.

[omni7]

Many thanks big -teee this is very helpful and interesting. The specs of the 58 was indeed 42 guage heavy Formvar wire... What do you mean by heights between the flats?

[big_teee]

The magnet height between the fiber flats?
If you look at my chart, that height is .435 inches.
Taller is usually brighter, shorter is usually more modern and fatter sounding.
I like to stay tall on neck, and middle pickups.
You can shorten a bridge pickup a little for a bit fatter sound.
GL, on your experimenting!
T

[omni7]

Thanks big tee I'm going to make a note of that tip!