Too Bright - Am I not using enough tension?

[littlewyan]

They’re slightly thicker than standard bobbins, but I’m sure the internal dimensions are the same as standard PAF. Can’t remember exact numbers now but I compared them to the PAF dimensions on the coil estimator site.

[Helmholtz]

What should coil dimensions change except inductance?
Inductance is known and looks normal.

Best way to increase inductance is more turns.
As inductance increases with the square of turns number, it rises stronger than output (and resistance).

[littlewyan]

But what if I wanted to darken the tone without increasing output?

[Helmholtz]

But what if I wanted to darken the tone without increasing output?

Use a weaker (partly demagnetized) magnet and increase turns. SD 59s use rather weakly magnetized A5.
Also original PAFs had weak, not fully magnetized (A4) magnets.
You might try A3 magnets (being weaker than A2).

Or use a longer guitar cable.
Another possibility would be wiring a 500pF to 1nF cap across your PU.

Of course you can always lower PU output by increasing pole-to-string distance.

[mozz]

You want to darken the tone add more capacitance. Wind slow and even, act like a machine, layer after layer.

[Helmholtz]

As said before, the possible increase in capacitance by different winding is insignificant in relation to total capacitance.

The effect will be the same as using a 2 or 3 feet longer cable (easy to try).

[John_H]

What should coil dimensions change except inductance?

Not sure really. It's another variable. It's difficult to clone something with mismatched parts while trying to stay true to some recipe, or measured values. The proximity of the coil to the metal parts of the pickup must affect the inductance somewhat.

But what if I wanted to darken the tone without increasing output?

Try different components. Try adding offset to the coils. That will change the resonant peak significantly.

[bbsailor]

Not sure really. It's another variable. It's difficult to clone something with mismatched parts while trying to stay true to some recipe, or measured values. The proximity of the coil to the metal parts of the pickup must affect the inductance somewhat.
Try different components. Try adding offset to the coils. That will change the resonant peak significantly.

Here is an experiment you can easily do to see how coil shape such a taller or wider will affect the sound level and tone.

Mount two humbucker bobbins on top of each other to simulate a tall single coil using longer magnets. Wire the two bobbins in series and in the same phase. Measure the total output level, then measure the output level of the upper coil and then the lower coil. What you will find is that coil turns farther from the strings produce lower output. That is why single coil P90 pickups that are short and wide produce a unique sound. But now the outer windings are farther from the magnets in the coil center so they extend the magnetic field using ferrous metal and magnets in a different way.

When you tinker with pickups and get to understand how the variables interact you can begin to anticipate what effect different magnets have on the sound and what the length of string that is stimulating induced voltage in the pickup coil has on the perceived high end response.

One last point. Look up the Fletcher Munson Curve to see what frequency range the human ear is the most sensitive. However, these levels change based on sound level or loudness. This is why on stereo amps, there is a loudness button that boosts the bass and treble at low listening levels to accommodate the human ear range of hearing.

Joseph J. Rogowski

[littlewyan]

Sorry for the delay in replying. As another experiment I wound a new pickup, 5600 turns again with I guess medium tension (just about gripping the wire) and 50TPL. This one sounded very different, it no longer had harsh treble, in fact it was almost lacking it. Makes sense, lower TPL, more wire on the bobbin, but I had lower inductance. Here are the numbers with an Alnico 2 smooth magnet 5.13H 1Khz 2.43Q, 5.58H 100Hz 0.41Q, 92.6pF 100Khz.
I know people often say on these forums that higher TPL usually equals less highs, but I have found a few posts where the opposite has been stated and this test showed that. Although given it's just one pickup I can't really say it's a conclusive test! I would like to wind one with a slightly higher TPL (55TPL maybe) but I don't know when I'll be able to as I'm hopefully about to move house. I'll try to report back when I do but it could be after Christmas as I'll need to get my workbench set up again.