Noobie Question(?): Increasing output/inductance without increasing wind count.

[yagguh]

Hey yall, so I'm pretty new here but I'm glad to have found a place for pickup winders to discuss and or inquire about things; so basically, I was wondering if there was a way to increase the output of a pickup in regards to how its wound. On my first pickup I got an inductance measurement of around 2.5 henries with a stratocaster bobbin wound to 8300 winds (DCR is at about 6.2k which is typical). I was pretty happy with it tonally.

My later pickups began measuring at around 2.3 henries while still being the same amount of winds, what are the possible factors that couldve caused this?

Notable differences between that first pickup and my current ones are that my tension is more consistent and tighter, my traversing pattern is slow with tighter coils (more machine-like rather than a haphazard scatter wind like the first one), and i have begun taping the magnets off from the coils to prevent potential shorts. The bobbin dimensions and supplier of alnico rods have been the same.

[Mike Sulzer]

Hey yall, so I'm pretty new here but I'm glad to have found a place for pickup winders to discuss and or inquire about things; so basically, I was wondering if there was a way to increase the output of a pickup in regards to how its wound. On my first pickup I got an inductance measurement of around 2.5 henries with a stratocaster bobbin wound to 8300 winds (DCR is at about 6.2k which is typical). I was pretty happy with it tonally.

My later pickups began measuring at around 2.3 henries while still being the same amount of winds, what are the possible factors that couldve caused this?

Notable differences between that first pickup and my current ones are that my tension is more consistent and tighter, my traversing pattern is slow with tighter coils (more machine-like rather than a haphazard scatter wind like the first one), and i have begun taping the magnets off from the coils to prevent potential shorts. The bobbin dimensions and supplier of alnico rods have been the same.

Coil geometry affects inductance, especially with low permeability cores. A more tightly wound (and thus more compact) coil could have less inductance, everything else equal. The permeability of the magnets affects inductance as well, and so if you have changed to a different magnet type, that could be part of the cause.

Output level behaves in a similar way, but inductance increases faster with increasing turn count than output level. The narrow tall design of strat pickups is inefficient. The turns near the bottom of the pickup (that is, away from the strings) contribute much less to the output than the ones close to the string. They still contribute to the inductance as much as the turns at the top, and so you could say that the purpose of the turns near the bottom is to help get the right sound from the pickup.

[mozz]

What kind of winder and turns counter?

[Helmholtz]

Also the degree of magnetization has some effect.
Fully magnetized A5 poles can give up to maybe 10% higher PU inductance compared with partially magnetized ones.

[yagguh]

Coil geometry affects inductance, especially with low permeability cores. A more tightly wound (and thus more compact) coil could have less inductance, everything else equal. The permeability of the magnets affects inductance as well, and so if you have changed to a different magnet type, that could be part of the cause.

Output level behaves in a similar way, but inductance increases faster with increasing turn count than output level. The narrow tall design of strat pickups is inefficient. The turns near the bottom of the pickup (that is, away from the strings) contribute much less to the output than the ones close to the string. They still contribute to the inductance as much as the turns at the top, and so you could say that the purpose of the turns near the bottom is to help get the right sound from the pickup.

would taping off the magnet rods as opposed to brushing lacquer on it affect it as well?

[yagguh]

What kind of winder and turns counter?

home made winder. 12v dc motor and magnetic counter

[mozz]

I asked that question because if it is magnetic, they often bounce, and you get false readings.

[Helmholtz]

Honestly, if you like the higher inductance better, I would just increase the turns number.
The slight increase in DCR will not be audible.
DCR is the least significant parameter of a PU.
Inductance is so much more influential.

[yagguh]

Honestly, if you like the higher inductance better, I would just increase the turns number.
The slight increase in DCR will not be audible.
DCR is the least significant parameter of a PU.
Inductance is so much more influential.

ill keep that in mind, and one last bit: vintage staggered poles will have more inductance cus of the slightly higher amount of iron in the pickup compared to a flat staggered pole setup right? thats one factor i forgot to consider when comparing my pickups to one another and why certain ones measured 2.5 henries while some measured a mere 2.09

[max oersted]

The staggered magnets barely make a difference in the grand scheme of things so pay more attention to how you build out your coils. Taping off and lacquer dip combined is 100% the way to go. Increasing the turn-count, yeah. For immediate results with your current winds, add a steel reflector plate to make the inductance jump. Then go back and split the difference between all of it and find joy.

Happy Holidays!

[Antigua]

ill keep that in mind, and one last bit: vintage staggered poles will have more inductance cus of the slightly higher amount of iron in the pickup compared to a flat staggered pole setup right? thats one factor i forgot to consider when comparing my pickups to one another and why certain ones measured 2.5 henries while some measured a mere 2.09

That's an interesting point, I've never compared inductance variation due to flat and staggered pole pieces. I doubt it would increase the inductance by 200mH, if I had to guess I'd put it closer to 50mH, based on related data points. I think in this case it's the tighter winding causing a net decrease in loop area.