Critiquing my setup/Tips for a tighter wind

[Steve17]

ok, so I am new to these forums, so go easy guys...

I have wound a set of strat pickups and 3 p-90's now with some success. At least my friends and I are really happy with the results. Now I am making a set of strat pickups for another friend. The thing is, he wants something with a little higher output than I got with my first set of strat pickups (bridge was 7.2k).

So I was wondering if i described my winding set-up to you, if you would give me advice on how I could tweak it to get a higher output coil.

Here is my setup:
The picture below is of my first pickup. I have changed the way I mount the pickup to the record player now. Instead of all that duct tape, I drill 3 holes in a piece of wood. One in the center to fit snugly around the center post of the record player, and two more around that to screw the pickup in.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...0/CIMG0876.jpg

So, pretty self explanatory I guess. The coil is a couple feet away from my tensioner mounted horizontally facing the tensioner. The "tensioner" is some books on top of two magazines (under the magazines are just some books for height). The wire slides through the two magazines and is pulled onto the bobbin. I make sure the tensioner height puts the wire right at the middle of the bobbin. Then I just turn on the record player and start guiding the wire to be as even as possible.

So this is the set-up I have developed. I am sure it sounds weird to you pros, so what tweaks could I make to get some tighter winds?

[David King]

That sounds like a lot more tension than you want or need for such a slow speed winder. Try some felt or wool sweater instead of magazine covers (which are slick with a clay gloss treatment that is probably removing your wire insulation)

[Steve17]

That sounds like a lot more tension than you want or need for such a slow speed winder. Try some felt or wool sweater instead of magazine covers (which are slick with a clay gloss treatment that is probably removing your wire insulation)

So what is the theory on tension? I just kind of guessed that the more tension you have, the tighter the coils will be on the bobbin and the higher output you could get. I guess my question is how will less tension affect the final product? I currently put about 3 pounds on top of the magazines.

[David King]

Tension and output have no relation at all. The wire is designed to be wrapped at the minimum tension necessary to keep it on the bobbin. Extra tension not only stretches the wire out causing the wire to become thinner and the resistance to go up, it speeds the breakdown of the insulating layer and causes the wraps to short out against each other and the pickup will fail sooner if not immediately.

Output is determined by the number of turns and the strength of the magnetic field. Tighter wrapping will allow a few more turns but you need to remember that the tension of each wrap adds to the tension of each previous wrap so that after a few layers of wire you might be crushing the inner layers with hundreds of pounds of pressure.

[Steve17]

Tension and output have no relation at all. The wire is designed to be wrapped at the minimum tension necessary to keep it on the bobbin. Extra tension not only stretches the wire out causing the wire to become thinner and the resistance to go up, it speeds the breakdown of the insulating layer and causes the wraps to short out against each other and the pickup will fail sooner if not immediately.

Output is determined by the number of turns and the strength of the magnetic field. Tighter wrapping will allow a few more turns but you need to remember that the tension of each wrap adds to the tension of each previous wrap so that after a few layers of wire you might be crushing the inner layers with hundreds of pounds of pressure.

That makes sense. So I guess my next question is how do you wind a higher output pickup? Is it all in the winding pattern?

[David Schwab]

That makes sense. So I guess my next question is how do you wind a higher output pickup? Is it all in the winding pattern?

More turns of wire. If you can't fit more wire on your bobbin, you need to use a thinner gauge of wire.

Most overwound pickups use 43 or 44 AWG.

[Steve17]

More turns of wire. If you can't fit more wire on your bobbin, you need to use a thinner gauge of wire.

Most overwound pickups use 43 or 44 AWG.

I understand that its more turns of the wire, but I for some reason thought that a different winding pattern might allow you to get a few more turns on the bobbin. That was the same idea behind my whole tension thing. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

So I know an overwound pickup doesnt have the treble response that an underwound pickup would. I also understand (I think) that a thinner gauge of wire gets more coils closer to the magnet and will tend to make a brighter pickup. If I want to make an overwound pickup that is on the darker side of things, is 44 gauge the answer? can I compensate for that thinner gauge of wire with more winds? or are any of my previous assumptions (and that is what they are) wrong?

Thanks for all this help guys. I have kind of been stumbling around in the dark for a while trying to do this. I know this is really simple stuff for you all and I really appreciate the help.

[David King]

What you probably need to know is that the "darkness" of overwound pickups comes from the extra capacitance from all those extra layers of wire near each other. It's somewhat equivalent to changing the capacitor value on your tone pot. If you want a brighter pickup you need to use a thicker insulation or wind fewer turns per layer (scatter-wound -although that's probably a subject for further debate). For a darker pickup use more turns per layer and single insulation.
Clearly your current winder isn't able to spread the wire evenly across the width of the bobbin so you can't get the maximum number of turns on there. You need some sort of mechanism to move the wire across the width slowly and evenly back and forth about once every 150-200 turns.

[Steve17]

What you probably need to know is that the "darkness" of overwound pickups comes from the extra capacitance from all those extra layers of wire near each other. It's somewhat equivalent to changing the capacitor value on your tone pot. If you want a brighter pickup you need to use a thicker insulation or wind fewer turns per layer (scatter-wound -although that's probably a subject for further debate). For a darker pickup use more turns per layer and single insulation.
Clearly your current winder isn't able to spread the wire evenly across the width of the bobbin so you can't get the maximum number of turns on there. You need some sort of mechanism to move the wire across the width slowly and evenly back and forth about once every 150-200 turns.

Ok, that mechanism is something I will have to work on. In searching through these forums the last few days I have come across a few threads on it.

So I am going to buy a roll of 44 awg to make my friends strat pickups. Since I am only doing 3 single coils with it I only want a small amount. So far I have found schatten design has a 1/2lb spool for $33.95. Is this a good price? Is this good wire? Is there much difference in different companies wire? Will I frustrate everyone in this forum with my incessant questioning?

[David Schwab]

So far I have found schatten design has a 1/2lb spool for $33.95. Is this a good price?

No... You are paying for convenience here.

Here's 2.31 pounds for $59.81. So for less than twice that price you are getting 5 times as much.

AWG 44 Copper Magnet Wire SPN 155 Red

Here's 2.18 pounds of 44 AWG for $45.29.

AWG 43 Copper Magnet Wire SPN 155 Red

[David King]

I just got 6 Lbs of 44 spn for $60 delivered off ebay. Strange thing is that the manufacture date is 11-10-2008 so someone is loosing money or we are all paying way too much for wire.

[David Schwab]

Wow, that's a good price!

I recently got two 2lb rolls of 44 for $15 each. It was a group auction on eBay. If I had known they would go for so little I would have gotten a bunch of them!

[Steve17]

Just scored this deal on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=280316788975

I think its a deal at least, based on what you guys have said. Did I make a good purchase?

Also, what are the odds of me selling the leftover wire? I am considering it since I just don't see myself using that much 44awg wire (I have a bunch of 42 and 43 already). After I am done I could just weigh it and sell it on ebay, or if anyone on here wanted it I could definitely give them a good deal. Thoughts?

[David King]

Just keep it clean and don't bump it with sharp objects. I'm sure I can use it.

[Steve17]

The leftover wire is already spoken for. This forum is great!