Gorman winders

[EFK]

Anyone with some experience with winders know anything about Gorman machine corp? I am particularly interested in their "Star Winder" -

Gorman Machine - Coil Winding Machine Manufacturer

Looks like a pretty heavy-duty little bugger for winding a single coil at a time.

Or, anyone know of any proven winders of similar size/style, programmable w/ auto traverse, made by other companies? Thanks!

[David Schwab]

It looks really nice. I think it's about $14,000 though!

[EFK]

It is pricey but I'm looking around at some used stuff too. They made an earlier model called the "Bobbineer" which is very similar. I'm not exactly sure what to look for in some of these small programmable winders, though. What would be useful, what would be overkill or a waste etc. I don't have the time to make one and frankly would rather spend the money than the time. I've thought about converting my old belt-driven metal lathe but it's just silly big and the electric bill alone would be killer!

[chevalij]

It is pricey but I'm looking around at some used stuff too. They made an earlier model called the "Bobbineer" which is very similar. I'm not exactly sure what to look for in some of these small programmable winders, though. What would be useful, what would be overkill or a waste etc. I don't have the time to make one and frankly would rather spend the money than the time. I've thought about converting my old belt-driven metal lathe but it's just silly big and the electric bill alone would be killer!

You'll spend 14K on a winder, but are worried about the electric bill? Am I missing something here?

[EFK]

I see spending money on a winder as an investment - can use it to make a return. An electric bill is just another damned bill that keeps coming with not much visible return!

Frankly I would not spend 14K on a winder. I'm looking for something used and comparable - I know they can be had for much less, but I'm not sure where to look. I was hoping some of you guys using small CNC or programmable winders might chime in with some options. Something with an auto traverse first and foremost - doesn't necessarily have to be CNC or overly complicated.

[JGundry]

If you want to experiment try RoboWare software. It turns RC servos into CNC controlled servos. It's cheap, simple and the software is very good for pickup winding. The moves you program in to the software are displayed on a linear graph and you can loop the movement if you like and play them back at different speeds after it is already programmed in. I only use vintage winders now but when I made my computer controlled machine I used this software.

Mini SSC II Serial Servo Controller/Robo-Ware Order Page

[David King]

J Gundry,
I was just thinking about that last night, using a $14 RC servo to push the wire back and forth. The first problem is that the servo movement isn't linear so you have the wire piling up at the edges if you don't compensate in the programing.
It would be nice for a standalone winder traverse using a PIC controller but how do you get there from here?
The arduino project boards would be a way to get into it at a reasonable price if they were actually capable of handing the task...

Controller:
Arduino (Atmega328 - assembled) [Duemilanove w/Atmega328] - $30.00 : Adafruit Industries, Unique & fun DIY electronics and kits
Motor shield:
Adafruit Motor/Stepper/Servo Shield for Arduino kit [v1.0] - $19.50 : Adafruit Industries, Unique & fun DIY electronics and kits
Servo:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVW07

[David Schwab]

I have a Lego Mindscape robot set that someone gave me. You can make it work as a scanner, so I had been thinking of messing with it to make a winder, but it all seemed like more work than it was worth.

[EFK]

"I have a Lego Mindscape robot set that someone gave me."

Who wouldn't love Lego!!!!!

[JGundry]

J Gundry,
I was just thinking about that last night, using a $14 RC servo to push the wire back and forth. The first problem is that the servo movement isn't linear so you have the wire piling up at the edges if you don't compensate in the programing.
It would be nice for a standalone winder traverse using a PIC controller but how do you get there from here?
The arduino project boards would be a way to get into it at a reasonable price if they were actually capable of handing the task...

Controller:
Arduino (Atmega328 - assembled) [Duemilanove w/Atmega328] - $30.00 : Adafruit Industries, Unique & fun DIY electronics and kits
Motor shield:
Adafruit Motor/Stepper/Servo Shield for Arduino kit [v1.0] - $19.50 : Adafruit Industries, Unique & fun DIY electronics and kits
Servo:
TowerHobbies.com | Futaba S3004 Standard Ball Bearing Servo

You can get a linear attachment that fits a Futaba hobby servo. One cool thing about using a hobby servo is you can control it with the RC transmitter to guide the wire via the remote. The RC servo is not going to be as sturdy as a CNC set up but it really does not need to be too heavy duty for pickup winding. One advantage is the servo is so compact that you can probably retrofit any winder with it after a few trips to the hobby store. CNC is probably the best long term solution but the hobby servo does work. The Roboware software is a nice interface IMO.

[peskywinnets]

My MK1 coil winder (now ret'd!) used a PIC to count pulses from an encoder wheel (a CD complete with a label printed with 192 black stripes like this one - http://www.toeminator.com/Toeminator...ts-Encoder.JPG - but with heaps more stripes - to get more resolution for the traverse). The encoder wheel was attached to the faceplate - for every x stripes it pulsed a traversal stepper....it worked well, though being new to PICs, it took me a good couple of weeks of nights to learn from scratch.

Having 'been there, done that', I can't emphasise strongly enough that the proper way to go, is to get yourself hold of a couple of cheap steppers, a cheap stepper drive board & download Mach3 - it's free (with some G-Code output limit constraints, but for winding pickups you'd *never* be impacted by those constraints).

You can really get Mach3 to sing and dance very easily...for example, when I wind a coil I want the first couple of windings to go slow (so I can apply epoxy)...then wind fast for the bulk of the wind, then stop half way through (to eyeball it) then fast again, then slow for the last few turns so I can wipe off the excess epoxy....then stop in an exact position I need (so the 'end wire' sets in epoxy at the required position). It does all of that automatically, leaving me to grin from the sidelines. I hope to hook a pneumatic epoxy dispenser up to Mach3 soon & use the 'coolant on' control signal to have the epoxy dispense automatically etc.

[David Schwab]

I hope to hook a pneumatic epoxy dispenser up to Mach3 soon & use the 'coolant on' control signal to have the epoxy dispense automatically etc.

Once that set, your dispenser would be useless.

Why do you use epoxy while winding?

[peskywinnets]

Once that set, your dispenser would be useless.

No, I just throw away the mixing nozzle off the top of the dual epoxy syringe gun (they cost about 80c).

I'm talking about something like this (albeit this is a single syringe variant)...

(pic lifted off Ebay, hence the text written across the middle)

Why do you use epoxy while winding?

I need bobbinless coils - I'm sure there are other ways, but it works for me!

[David Schwab]

No, I just throw away the mixing nozzle off the top of the dual epoxy syringe gun (they cost about 80c).

I'm talking about something like this (albeit this is a single syringe variant)...

(pic lifted off Ebay, hence the text written across the middle)

THat sure wouldn't mix the epoxy well!

I need bobbinless coils - I'm sure there are other ways, but it works for me!

Oh yeah, I forgot that. You know how a few pickups makers do it... Kent Armstrong makes bobbinless coils. He winds them on some type of coil form... it;s like something with two dowels that holes the ends of the coil. Then he dunks the whole assembly in wax. After a while he removes them and when it cools, removes the coil form, which adjusts to be able to remove it from the coil.

Another interesting one is the Q-Tuner pickups. He uses bondable magnet wire. After winding on a form, he sticks it in the oven, where the wire glues together.

Hey, but if the system works, it works!

[peskywinnets]

THat sure wouldn't mix the epoxy well!

It was just an example (& the first piccie I could lazily lay my hands on from Ebay - more to illustrate the overall kit than specifics)...the nozzle I use, is actually a static mixing nozzle - & mixes the two part syringe based Epoxy into one nicely....



(as an aside, prior to going with these nozzles, I found that the if you apply the two epoxy parts into the empty bobbin first, then it gets mixed very well by the wire itself as it winds onto the bobbin it's just a messy way to do it vs these nozzles!)

Re self bond wire ...being still somewhat 'wet behind the ears' (I'm not even sure if you use that expression in the US?!) I only found out about the stuff yesterday - it certainly makes some funky things 'do-able'.

Anyway, we're straying way off - if I recall the original post was about $14,000 pickup winders - carry on!