Different specs for dimmer switch speed controls ?

[Joe Gwinn]

Can you do a quick sketch of that Joe?

Sure. here:

[walcen]

I'm not sure if this is helpful to anyone at all but after much experimentation I've found that these 450 watt light dimmer's work really well on vertically every AC motor I've tried and it provides great speed control although the brush-less motors tent to hum a little at low speed.

kind regards to all

Walt

[RedHouse]

I'm not sure if this is helpful to anyone at all but after much experimentation I've found that these 450 watt light dimmer's work really well on vertically every AC motor I've tried and it provides great speed control although the brush-less motors tent to hum a little at low speed.

kind regards to all

Walt

Aw darn! most of my motors are horizontal...

[RedHouse]

Sure. here:

I think I get the drift Joe, thanks.

How does that help low speed?, and what effect does DC have on an AC motor at low speeds?

Also your PDF maker seemed to cut off some of your verbiage, this is how it displays on my screen (Acrobat-9):

[David Schwab]

Brushless DC motors contain an electronic controller plus a form of induction motor, so a ceiling fan controller probably won't work at all, and may damage something.

There are lamp dimmers that work well with universal-wound motors. Lutron is a good brand.

Joe, would a lamp dimmer work with a brushless DC motor? I'd like to fix my Schatten winder so I can sell it. I could try replacing the rectifier on the speed control board, but it seems like it is a faulty design since they seem to be failing on people.

[Joe Gwinn]

I think I get the drift Joe, thanks.

How does that help low speed?, ...

I don't recall exactly why it works, but I did read this in a textbook on motors, and my experiments did show that DC worked better. I think that it will have to do with the self-inductance of the motor windings.

and what effect does DC have on an AC motor at low speeds?

Well, an "AC/DC" motor is not an "AC motor", it's a universal-wound DC motor with laminated iron so it won't overheat when fed with AC. That's what is meant by "universal".

A universal wound DC motor has field winding and rotor winding in series, so the direction of rotation does not change if the polarity of the supply is reversed. To reverse, one must rewire the motor.

Also your PDF maker seemed to cut off some of your verbiage, this is how it displays on my screen (Acrobat-9):

Try downloading again from the original post. I replaced the file.

[Joe Gwinn]

Joe, would a lamp dimmer work with a brushless DC motor? I'd like to fix my Schatten winder so I can sell it. I could try replacing the rectifier on the speed control board, but it seems like it is a faulty design since they seem to be failing on people.

Is it really a brushless DC motor? They are expensive. Small DC motors can have brushes inside that are not externally visible.

But to answer your question, I would be surprised if a brushless DC motor was happy being driven by any kind of lamp dimmer.

Standard 110 volt lamp dimmers put out far too much voltage for such a motor. One can get lamp dimmers intended to drive low-voltage (12 volts being common) halogen lamps through a transformer. Such a dimmer with transformer and rectifier bridge could work, but this is getting expensive.

I would replace the blown rectifier with an electrically larger component first.

Actually, Schatten may offer repair and/or parts, given that it appears to be a design problem.

[-Elepro-]

Joe, would a lamp dimmer work with a brushless DC motor? I'd like to fix my Schatten winder so I can sell it. I could try replacing the rectifier on the speed control board, but it seems like it is a faulty design since they seem to be failing on people.

no, dc brushless is a three phase motor and needs its driver....
but... try to change rectifier with a bigger one....
post a photo of the control board....

[David Schwab]

Is it really a brushless DC motor? They are expensive. Small DC motors can have brushes inside that are not externally visible.

It's a small DC motor. I guess it probably has brushes. It has a small controller board on one end. It certainly wasn't expensive.

Work with dimmers?

[Joe Gwinn]

It's a small DC motor. I guess it probably has brushes. It has a small controller board on one end. It certainly wasn't expensive.

Work with dimmers?

Depends on the controller board.

Actually, doesn't the Schatten run off a wall wart? If so, the voltage will be low, and direct connection to a 110 volt dimmer will cause sparks and fire.

I've never seen the Schatten, so I'd like to second Elpro's request for photos.

[walcen]

Aw darn! most of my motors are horizontal...

You see? this is what Virtually happens when your eye sight begins to Virtually fail you and spell check Virtually gets it wrong. Sorry for the typo.

Back on subject, for DC motors between 12 and 35 Volts I have found that a simple pulse width modulator works really well and provides good motor speed control. they are easy to build from a kit or purchase from E_Bay.

Here are a couple I made, the cheep one is good for 12-15 volts DC.
The other is good for 12-35 volts DC

DC Motor Controller Kit (K3070) | Dick Smith Online Store

Bi-Directional DC Motor Speed Controller Kit

I hope this is helpful.

regards

Walt

[David Schwab]

Actually, doesn't the Schatten run off a wall wart? If so, the voltage will be low, and direct connection to a 110 volt dimmer will cause sparks and fire.

Oh yeah... duh...

I've never seen the Schatten, so I'd like to second Elpro's request for photos.

Here's some I took a while back. When I get a chance I'll take the non working speed controller board out and take a photo of it. I had replaced the motor, which turned out to be fine.

[David King]

The LM 317 is an adjustable voltage regulator. You can get from 1.5 to 35V at up to 1A. So it doesn't look like a PWM based speed control but a variable voltage controller. I can't really imagine why he did it that way. Looking at his PCB it doesn't seem like electronics is his forté.
There should be a good sized filtering cap(s) somewhere in there which I'm not seeing..

The + and - stamped into the back of the motor case tells me that's a DC motor, probably 12V.
How many volts is the wall wart putting out?

Mabuchi only makes DC motors, they are the worlds #1 producer according to wikipedia.

I looked through their online catalogue and couldn't find one that looked like this.
If you know the dia and the voltage, you can look it up here:
http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/en_US...ct/p_0303.html

[-Elepro-]

.... this is a simple pwm controller

DPRG: A Simple PWM Circuit Based on the 555 Timer

[David Schwab]

The LM 317 is an adjustable voltage regulator. You can get from 1.5 to 35V at up to 1A. So it doesn't look like a PWM based speed control but a variable voltage controller. I can't really imagine why he did it that way. Looking at his PCB it doesn't seem like electronics is his forté.

That probably explains why the thing failed.

There should be a good sized filtering cap(s) somewhere in there which I'm not seeing..

I think there is. I'll have to open the thing up and take a photo. I broke the switch on the pot it used, so I replaced the pot with a new one and a seperate toggle switch. So now the board is hanging from the pot.

The + and - stamped into the back of the motor case tells me that's a DC motor, probably 12V.
How many volts is the wall wart putting out?

9V, 500mA.

Mabuchi only makes DC motors, they are the worlds #1 producer according to wikipedia.

I looked through their online catalogue and couldn't find one that looked like this.
If you know the dia and the voltage, you can look it up here:
Search by Required Motor Performance | MABUCHI MOTOR

I had the part number for the motor. It's on the parts list in the instruction manual. I couldn't find that motor listed anywhere. When I got a new motor from Schatten it wasn't very expensive... maybe $12. I don't remember.