A New Electric Turns Counter/Drive for the Geo. Stevens Winder?

[ken]

Hello all,

I'm restoring the Geo. Stevens Model 120 multicoil pickup winder shown on another thread in this forum.

The original electrical control system is basically junk, and the original Veeder-Root mechanical counter works but only looks cool.

I'm now redesigning the original electrical counter/motor drive system based on this original schematic I got from member TubeType.



I would like to add some new features to the new control, like an electronic motor speed and/or brake torque control instead of rheostats, a 'soft start' (automatic speedup/slowdown at the beginning or end of a wind), broken coil wire sensors, or even a tachometer.

Does anyone have any ideas on how I could do this, possibly using a Red Lion or similar counter? I would like to design something that can be used by others with similar mechanical winders, not just the Stevens models.

Here's the original control box so you can see what I'm dealing with, with no brake torque (amount of braking) control. The brakes would either be 'all on' or 'all off', and if I tried to use this controller design with 42 gauge wire, every time the brakes came on I'd probably break the wire.



Here's the 'guts' of the control box, showing what was probably the winder's original cause of death - a blown power capacitor in the brake's power supply. This probably shorted out a couple of the diodes at least. I hope the brake still works when I'll try to power it up.



Here's two photos of the counter.





Thank you,
Ken

[David King]

The counter is a mechanical preset counter with a switch that triggers the relay in the box which in turn engages the brake? Is the motor DC so the brake would be just a big power resistor?

For what you want to do I'd start over with a small three phase motor and a cheap VFD that can take 10 speed "steps" from your plc and counter. There are piles of all that stuff, used on ebay and probably in most motor rewind shops.

[Jim Darr]

Ken,

Looks like you got two great winders.

The pics I posted on your earlier thread are of my Model 15, another very early winder from Geo Stevens. From looking at the pics you just posted of your model 20, I’d say they are very similar with what appears to be the same casing, counter, and general setup. Let me know if you need any info or pics to get yours up and running. My machine is a very well made and smooth running winder. I do have a complete gear set and might be willing to sell you some gears…I’d really have to think about it though…PM me if you are interested and let me know what your teeth count preference is.

Concerning your mechanical counter, the gray number wheels should be your presets, while the white numbers/wheels should be your actual turns count. As David said, the device triggers a switch at the desired turn count to stop the winder. I have a very similar counter, made by Veeder-Root, one of my COWECOs. On mine you push in on the grey wheels (toward the white wheels) and rotate it to the desired stop turn count. You would need to make sure that the winding head and the turn count indicator are a 1:1 ratio. If not, you’ll have to calculate the counter turns number to the actual winding heads turns. Again, let me know if you need pics.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

========================================

Keep Winding…Keep Playing!!!

Jim

[ken]

The counter is a mechanical preset counter with a switch that triggers the relay in the box which in turn engages the brake? Is the motor DC so the brake would be just a big power resistor?

You're basically right on this, except for a couple of things... The original motor is 110VAC single phase, and the entire control system is 110VAC except for the actual brake, even the light. The brake is powered by the 110VDC made by the rectifier and the 40mfd capacitor. There seems to be a big honkin' magnet and a coil of wire in the brake drum, and when you turn on the brakes you shut off the motor. At the same time the control feeds the 110VDC to the brake, so the coil attracts the magnet with enough force to stop the machine. I'm worried that just jamming on the brakes like that would break the 42 gauge wire I'm going to be using. I'm sure the system worked well with the 22gauge pinball coils were made of.

I have a very similar counter, made by Veeder-Root, one of my COWECOs. On mine you push in on the grey wheels (toward the white wheels) and rotate it to the desired stop turn count. You would need to make sure that the winding head and the turn count indicator are a 1:1 ratio.

We have the same counter I do. On my winder, the counter is chain drive with a sprocket on the mainshaft and another one the same size on the counter.
I have a friend into robotics, and he's going to look for a set of modern 'cogged belt' pulleys in the same size for me.

ken

[ken]

I'm very anxious to see the winder running again after all this time, so I'm going to make a brand new version of the original control box with modern parts. Besides, I don't have the time to design the computerized, Nixie-tube readout dieselpunk counter of my dreams right now, anyway.

So... I fixed up the original motor with new brushes and a new 3 wire cord, and then I went to Harbor Freight on Friday and bought two router speed controls, one for the main motor and one to control the brakes.

I opened one of these up, and it seems to work on the white (neutral) wire, instead of on the hot wire like I was expecting.



There is a 1Meg trimpot to set the slowest speed, and the control pot proper is another 1 Meg pot. I am going to see how I can fit both of these controls in the same control box along with the new relay and bridge rectifier I just bought.

The speed control works well with the original motor I got with this winder, a Bodine reduction gearbox motor. This is a 5000RPM 110VAC singlephase motor with a 10:1 gearbox for a 500RPM output. When you add this to the 3:1 or so reduction you get from the V belt drive, you don't get a lot of RPM at all. This winder must have been slowwwww....

ken