Soldering Irons

[big_teee]

some guys over at HC dig these irons, which are CHEEEP

Solder Station-CSI-STATION1A

That's a good price!
Does anyone here have one of them?
T

[tedmich]

HKSblade1
at HC has their SMD rework station
( Aaron SS also recommends)

Holland and Headfi also likes, with the caveat that they are so cheap if they break they'd just toss em and buy another!

headfi links
Csi Solder - Search


marku52 here has one! and Defaced sounded like he might get one.

[Steve A.]

My workhorse soldering pencil is a generic 60W one with a switchable 1N4007 diode in series (which is permanently mounted on the dedicated "soldering" outlet in my bench.
So any 60W one I plug there becomes instant 30/60W with the added advantage of having the heavier thicker (more thermal mass) 60W tip (typically 6mm) instead of the typical 4 or 5mm tip found on 30W ones.

I did the same thing but used an $8 combination switch and outlet in a 2x4 handy box- when the switch is "on" it is full power and it can be switched back and forth between the high and low settings as needed with a simple flip. I had thought about saving the big bucks and just using a duplex outlet with one outlet full power and the other high power (color-coded to help me remember which was which.) But I figured that I would put off switching outlets, especially since the handy box is not secured so I would have to use both hands.

re: "large ground pads", if this is something like a multi-layer PCB, I doubt any regular iron will do the job (basically all the metal sinks away the heat so while the PCB will get hot, it will have great difficulty ramping up to solder melting temperature--I think you need specialized equipment such as a localized wave soldering type thing or a preheat of the board by baking, a hot plate type device, or perhaps hot air).

I have had pretty good luck setting my Hakko to 800 degrees and putting some solder right where the iron touches the copper pad to help it conduct the heat. Yes I know that violates the cardinal rule of soldering ("use the iron to heat the part and then touch the solder to the part and not to the iron") but it usually works for me. If the board has only two layers I will hold it up to the light to see if there is spot where I can drill a small hole to secure the part using a pin vice. I have found that the cheap $7 "dremel" tools that Harbor Freight sells are good for burnishing the copper pad, removing whatever coating might be on it; that tool is also good for cutting traces when modding amps. What I like best about the HF rotary tools is that they lug down with a load so the RPM's can be much lower than what you would get with a Dremel.

I agree, I think the W60P would be perfect, and would fit in my Soldering Iron Cage.

Make sure that your iron holder does not act as a heat sink since that will burn out the tips and heater prematurely. It was suggested that the W60P is not thermostatically controlled but it definitely is (although you can't adjust the temperature as you can with the "real" solder stations.) In the tip there is a small magnet which moves back and forth which activates something a reed switch (?) which maintains the temperature accurately. The larger tips might have more of a temperature swing because it takes longer for the mass to heat up or cool off. (BTW if you use a file on the tip it can affect the internal magnet and screw up the temperature regulation.) After replacing the heater once and the switch a few times I can see how it would have been much better if I had used a switchable diode to cut the power in half. That will work with the W60P because it is not electronically controlled. Mine was a real workhorse and I bought it to reward myself when I got my first big income tax refund check after becoming a homeowner (that would have been 1985.) Right now I have the W60P in my Amazon cart for $68.05 (free shipping and no sales tax for CA residents!) but I still need to decide between that and the Xytronic 168-3C 60w solder station recommended here for roughly the same price although the shipping charge is around $15 from the only source I could find, Palco Electronics.

BTW the big chisel tips for most irons and soldering stations last a long time; it is the smaller tips for fine PCB work that burn out like matches.

Steve Ahola

P.S. I was just looking at a Hakko clone 937D+ solder station at eBay with this important note:

When the heating light twinkle ceaselessly, it means the temperature is raising;
When the heating light twinkle regularly, it means the temperature is stabilized.

I thought that was very poetic, almost like haiku!

[big_teee]

I'm not good at babying Soldering irons, or Tools for that matter.
I would think the 60 Watt would be fairly heavy duty.
I try to keep the power off when not in use.
I'm use to using industrial grade tools and equipment.
T

[Joe Gwinn]

It was suggested that the W60P is not thermostatically controlled but it definitely is (although you can't adjust the temperature as you can with the "real" solder stations.)

Yes, it's controlled. Catalog No. W60P Product Detail

In the tip there is a small magnet which moves back and forth which activates something a reed switch (?) which maintains the temperature accurately.

In the back of the tip, the part that's usually buried in the iron, is a small slug of a bismuth alloy. This slug will have 6, 7, or 8 stamped into it. The metal slug loses its magnetism above the indicated temperature, and regains it below that temperature (the Curie temperature). In the barrel of the iron is an alnico magnet. Below temperature, the magnet is attracted to the slug and pulls the power contacts closed. Above temperature, a spring is able to pull the magnet away from the now non-magnetic slog, cutting power to the heater. The clicking one hears is the cycling as temperature periodically varies around the Curie temperature of the slug. The details are in US patent 3,267,254.

The larger tips might have more of a temperature swing because it takes longer for the mass to heat up or cool off. (BTW if you use a file on the tip it can affect the internal magnet and screw up the temperature regulation.)

Filing the solder tip does not affect the slug, although the iron filings may get into things.

Filing does destroy the iron plating, allowing the tip to quickly erode. One re-tins tips with acid flux, and when that fails, one replaces the tip.

After replacing the heater once and the switch a few times I can see how it would have been much better if I had used a switchable diode to cut the power in half. That will work with the W60P because it is not electronically controlled. Mine was a real workhorse and I bought it to reward myself when I got my first big income tax refund check after becoming a homeowner (that would have been 1985.)

I've had the original TCP iron (24-volt pencil) since the 1970s, and it still works just fine. You are right that the W60P will work with a diode, but why bother? The diode defeats the whole point of controlled irons, their ability to bring workpieces up to temperature rapidly.

By the way, transformer irons (like my 24-volt TCP, now WTCP) will burn out if run through a diode, even though there is nothing electronic present. It's the transformer that dies.

Right now I have the W60P in my Amazon cart for $68.05 (free shipping and no sales tax for CA residents!) but I still need to decide between that and the Xytronic 168-3C 60w solder station recommended here for roughly the same price although the shipping charge is around $15 from the only source I could find, Palco Electronics.

I have no opinion on Xytronics, so haunting the electronics groups may be useful. I've always used Weller, because they are well built, and the parts are available decades later. I can still get parts for my original TCP iron, bought in 1972 or so.

[big_teee]

I've always used Weber, because they are well built, and the parts are available decades later. I can still get parts for my original TCP iron, bought in 1972 or so.

Joe is WCPCT hot enough to solder a nickel cover on a humbucker?
I have a whole bag of tips to fit that Iron.
I have different shapes and sizes, but they are all 700 degree tips.
Years ago we were cleaner out an old work center, they were going in the dumpster, so I stuck them in my truck.
I considered a WCPCT Iron but more than I wanted to spend.
Here's about the best price I've seen.
Weller WTCPT Professional Soldering Station
T

[Steve A.]

I have no opinion on Xytronics, so haunting the electronics groups may be useful. I've always used Weber, because they are well built, and the parts are available decades later. I can still get parts for my original TCP iron, bought in 1972 or so.

I went ahead and ordered the W60P for bigger stuff and the WLC100 for smaller stuff from Amazon last night which is currently running a sale on many of soldering items that they stock. My old W60P was a real workhorse and I think that my new one would last longer using the diode switch. Or maybe not. At half power it would take longer to reach the set-point temperature so it would be on longer when "idling," although at half power. The internals of my old one were totally cooked after 15+ years*** and I hate to subject anything to that kind of abuse.

As for filing the tips if the file has become magnetized I suspect that it could impart some magnetism to the tip and/or iron which would affect the operation. In any case I appreciate your explanation of how it regulates the temperature, and for posting the patent numbers so that I can read more about it. (I hate to disseminate misinformation!)

I still have my old Xytronic solder station but when the local electronics parts house dropped the line my source of replacement tips was gone. (Back then I did not deal with mail orders except for a few companies like Mouser which had reasonable rates for shipping.)

Steve Ahola

*** With my old W60P after replacing all of the internal parts it would no longer cycle on and off properly (I'd usually have to touch the tip to the wet sponge to get it to cycle back on.) I wonder if the barrel might have acquired a magnetic charge which could keep the switch from operating properly...

T: I had trouble desoldering humbucker covers even with my W60P so I don't think that the WTCPT would handle that (I think it is a combination of wattage and tip mass.) For me the Hakko 80 watt iron does the job and it only costs about $30. Bruce Collins picked up a 125W iron for stained glass at a flea market for a ridiculously low price so that might be another option.

[big_teee]

I went ahead and ordered the W60P for bigger stuff and the WLC100 for smaller stuff from Amazon last night which is currently running a sale on many of soldering items that they stock. My old W60P was a real workhorse and I think that my new one would last longer using the diode switch. Or maybe not. At half power it would take longer to reach the set-point temperature so it would be on longer when "idling," although at half power. The internals of my old one were totally cooked after 15+ years*** and I hate to subject anything to that kind of abuse.

As for filing the tips if the file has become magnetized I suspect that it could impart some magnetism to the tip and/or iron which would affect the operation. In any case I appreciate your explanation of how it regulates the temperature, and for posting the patent numbers so that I can read more about it. (I hate to disseminate misinformation!)

I still have my old Xytronic solder station but when the local electronics parts house dropped the line my source of replacement tips was gone. (Back then I did not deal with mail orders except for a few companies like Mouser which had reasonable rates for shipping.)

Steve Ahola

*** With my old W60P after replacing all of the internal parts it would no longer cycle on and off properly (I'd usually have to touch the tip to the wet sponge to get it to cycle back on.) I wonder if the barrel might have acquired a magnetic charge which could keep the switch from operating properly...

Steve:
None of us are going to live forever!
At my age if I could 15 to 20 years, fork me I'm probably done!
Let us know how you like the 60P
Sounds like a great product.
T

[Joe Gwinn]

I've always used Weller, because they are well built, and the parts are available decades later. I can still get parts for my original TCP iron, bought in 1972 or so.

Joe is WCPCT hot enough to solder a nickel cover on a humbucker?

I do recall doing this. The pen power is 42 watts, and the heater is very close to the tip. But you have to use the widest chisel tip, 3/16" wide if I recall.

I have a whole bag of tips to fit that Iron.
I have different shapes and sizes, but they are all 700 degree tips.
Years ago we were cleaning out an old work center, they were going in the dumpster, so I stuck them in my truck.

Good move. And 700 degrees is the most commonly used temperature. For soldering solderese magnet wire, an 800 degree tip works better - a puff of smoke and you're done.

I considered a WTCPT Iron but more than I wanted to spend.
Here's about the best price I've seen.
Weller WTCPT Professional Soldering Station
T

Industrial irons do cost like that. If you are making money using an iron, how fast you can reliably produce good connections is the key metric, not initial price.

I bought my TCP (same pencil iron, different transformer that WTCP) in the early 1970s (or was it 1968?) for about $70, which was real money back then. The reason I bought the TCP was that I had a summer job at RCA, and that's what they used to solder electronics for NASA - this stuff literally went to the moon. So it has to be good enough for me. I have used it ever since, and it always worked well.

The TCP retired when I bought a WES51, which was on sale for $100, in 2007. The knob-controlled temperature was the attraction. The pen power is 50 watts. Skipping the digital control and temp display sharply reduced the price, with no obvious loss of functionality.

[dai h.]

I have had pretty good luck setting my Hakko to 800 degrees and putting some solder right where the iron touches the copper pad to help it conduct the heat.

Steve, have you tried recapping a PC motherboard? If you have the opportunity with say a discarded, broken, etc. one, I would suggest trying it out for the experience. (As far as I can tell) I am not alone in finding it highly difficult with ordinary soldering irons. Guitar amps (I would guess) typically don't have the same sort of multi-layer boards (though my M/Boogie .22+ was pretty difficult as I recall--oh, and an old Yamaha REX50 multi-effects unit).

P.S. I was just looking at a Hakko clone 937D+ solder station at eBay with this important note:

When the heating light twinkle ceaselessly, it means the temperature is raising;
When the heating light twinkle regularly, it means the temperature is stabilized.

I thought that was very poetic, almost like haiku!

so,

LED is flashing = temp. rising
LED is constant = temp. stable

I'd say it looks more like a lazy reliance on machine translation (or maybe that the consumer won't find it that important compared to the low price).

re: the (mainly) Chinese made tips, something I remember reading on a Japanese site was that the attempt on some of them to increase life through increased iron plating (or iron plating + machining? or grinding to try to control the plating thickness) to try to counteract the reduced lifetimes due to the usage of lead-free solder wasn't something that worked well. The argument illustrated was this:

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/gahaku15/...2.gif?b6a05b2f

(If I understand this correctly) the core of the tip is Cu (copper), the plating on the outside is Fe (iron). (Iron plating ends up being thicker on points and edges, so additional plating means extra thickness on points and edges.) The heat coming from the copper core tends to escape from the portions where the iron plating is thinnest. So, apparently the argument is that there is unwanted heat loss at the sides (where the iron plating is thinner), as well as decreased heat transfer at edges and points (the portions that will be used for soldering where you need the heat from the core to travel and transfer to). Additionally there are attempts on some of these tips to grind(?) away some of the plating (I think this must be on the tip/edge portions) but the effectiveness was suspect due to the difficulty of controlling the exact thickness of the plating. Being no expert I don't know how true all this is. (Possibly the clone tips are indeed the same and they are unhappy with the competition?)

[Joe Gwinn]

I went ahead and ordered the W60P for bigger stuff and the WLC100 for smaller stuff from Amazon last night which is currently running a sale on many of soldering items that they stock. My old W60P was a real workhorse and I think that my new one would last longer using the diode switch. Or maybe not. At half power it would take longer to reach the set-point temperature so it would be on longer when "idling," although at half power. The internals of my old one were totally cooked after 15+ years*** and I hate to subject anything to that kind of abuse.

The controller will maintain the temperature at the setpoint, say 700 F. Having half power available will only slow things down on turn-on. So cooking will proceed at the same rate as at full power, as cooking is governed by temperature. Most irons are not used continuously, so turning the iron off while not in use works. (Being intended for use on a production line, my TCP did not even have a power switch. I added the switch.)

As for filing the tips if the file has become magnetized I suspect that it could impart some magnetism to the tip and/or iron which would affect the operation. In any case I appreciate your explanation of how it regulates the temperature, and for posting the patent numbers so that I can read more about it. (I hate to disseminate misinformation!)

You cannot permanently magnetize the tips, no matter what you do to them. Try "charging" a tip with a neo.

Nor can you magnetize the other components of the iron enough to matter. The alnico magnet in the switch is pretty strong. The test is to see if anything other than the alnico magnet in the switch will stick to piece of mild steel, or even be attracted.

*** With my old W60P after replacing all of the internal parts it would no longer cycle on and off properly (I'd usually have to touch the tip to the wet sponge to get it to cycle back on.) I wonder if the barrel might have acquired a magnetic charge which could keep the switch from operating properly.

If you replaced all the components, you would have a new iron. The barrel is non-magnetic stainless steel, and heating will not make it magnetic. My suspicion is that the switch is full of iron filings or other debris. You have nothing to lose - take it apart and look. The problem will not be complex. Actually, first check to see if the power cord is bad - the conductors often fracture right where they go into the pen handle.

I had trouble desoldering humbucker covers even with my W60P so I don't think that the WTCPT would handle that (I think it is a combination of wattage and tip mass.)

The difference is that the W60P must be insulated to hold off 1500 volts, and has many turns of fine nichrome wire, because it runs directly off the 120 VAC line, while the TCP pens run at 24 volts and so have a few turns of thick nichrome, and need not be insulated so heavily. So, the thermal resistance between heater and tip is far less at 24 volts than at 120.

For me the Hakko 80 watt iron does the job and it only costs about $30. Bruce Collins picked up a 125W iron for stained glass at a flea market for a ridiculously low price so that might be another option.

I'm pretty sure the Hakko pens run at 24 volts as well. And 80 watts is double the 42 watts of the TCP pens.

A iron for stained-glass work should work because it can bring the metal up to temperature quite fast, limiting cooking of the pickup innards. The problem is that many irons idle at 900 F. The optimum is a temperature-controlled iron for stained glass, such as the Weller W100PG, which costs about $50 new and runs at 700 F, with 100 watts behind a big tip.

[David Schwab]

The Hexacon iron makes short work of chassis ground connections.

I had a Hexicon soldering station back in the late 70s. That thing was great.

[Joe Gwinn]

I had a Hexicon soldering station back in the late 70s. That thing was great.

How many watts? And pounds?

[big_teee]

How many watts? And pounds?

I have some hexacons used in phone office Type work.
I can't find elements for them.
I have one that is 110Watts, and another that is 90 Watts.
They use threaded tips that are, I think 3/8" threads.
T

[Steve A.]

Steve:
None of us are going to live forever!
At my age if I could 15 to 20 years, fork me I'm probably done!
Let us know how you like the 60P
Sounds like a great product.
T

Although my old one became unrepairable after ~15 years during that time I had replaced the internal components several times. Because of various health problems I am surprised that I made it to 60 (although I now expect to live for many more years) and getting just a Social Security disability check I try to minimize repair and replacement costs of practically everything I own. For me the switchable diode is going to be a great help because I'll leave the iron on while going to my back room to get something and will get sidetracked by some other project and forget that the iron is cooking away on my workbench (some people would call it a "dining room table" but that word is not in my vocabulary. ) I may make up a new switch box, with one switch controlling the low power outlet and the other controlling the full power outlet (with the two outlets color-coded otherwise I'd forget which is which.) Like right now I turned on my computer just to check my email while my new George Foreman grill was heating up and that was quite awhile ago...

Steve Ahola