What adhesives WON'T get smoked by a soldering iron?

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

There is a narrower question for my own purposes, but I thought it might be generally helpful to brain storm as a group on what various adhesives work in proximity to soldering.

I've been making some pickups wherein I need to ground a piece of steel, but said piece of steel needs to be adhered into place. Super glue is an obvious no-no. I've been tempted to use it for extra security on eyelets as well. The iron sends it up in a cloud of smoke and I'm cursing for a few minutes because I have that smoke in my eyes.

I've been using epoxy, but sometimes I wish I had something that would wick more. Every epoxy I've used has been pretty gooey in its raw form, but maybe there are some that are better than others.

I'm yet to try using any contact cement. I would imagine that PVA and aliphatic glues would be useless on pickups.

Thoughts?

[soundguruman]

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Lab-metal is thermally conductive, but not electrically conductive. The filler in Lab-metal, aluminum powder, is atomized in the molten state when made. As the powder cools, an oxide coating forms on each particle, creating an electrical conductivity resistance. However, Lab-metal should not be regarded as an electrical insulator.
Super glue is cyanide based and would not recommend breathing the fumes if it is burning.

[Bruce Johnson]

I don't think you're going to find a happy answer. There aren't many glues around that are going to withstand the temperatures you need to melt solder. I suggest rethinking your assembly sequence. For example, solder a short lead wire onto your steel part first, then glue the steel part down. Solder your wire to the eyelet first, then reinforce it with glue.

And yes, burning Super Glue is very dangerous to breathe! As in potentially fatal.

[Joe Gwinn]

The only commonly available adhesive that is remotely plausible is silicon rubber adhesive.

But I'm with Bruce Johnson on this - rethink your assembly sequence.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

Well, I have a routine that works, so I don't NEED a solution right away. I was just hoping to improve upon it. I can do the whole thing with epoxy, I just wish at times that I had something that would wick a bit better. I was really also hoping for some ideas to create an arsenal of solutions for the future as well as address this particular situation.

I may reorient my search to exploring various epoxies and seeing if some are more viscous in their unhardened states than others. I've been using steel grade epoxies from Devcon almost exclusively, so I haven't exactly branched out a lot.

Regarding CA smoke, I've heard two different things. One is that the smoke is basically cyanide gas, and the other is that it is just glue "vapor", and the reason it irritates is because it catalyzes on your skin (or in some cases on your eyes) in the same way that glue instantly catalyzes if you get it on your fingers. It immediately becomes a solid, and is an irritant at most. Your body flushes it away in due time. I'm not sure which is the case, or if it is some combination of the two. It does seem to occur in two different instances. Sometimes when you wick up glue very fast (like with a q-tip) and other times when you burn it. While cyanide is chemically part of the CA, I don't remember my chemistry well enough to say how hard it would separate from the larger compound.

[defaced]

Epoxy are a pretty broad category of materials. Some are very thin (like those used for covering wood work), others are not (JB Weld). You may also cut the epoxy with something and reduce it's viscosity, but it will depend on exactly what epoxy you're using. Material science is all about the details.

[David King]

I find that the epoxies I use wick like nobody's business, they get into all the places I wish they wouldn't. Something doesn't compute here.

[Bruce Johnson]

Yes, there are all kinds of epoxies with a wide range of viscosities. Most of the stuff that you buy in bubble packs in the hardware store is very thick and won't sink in. The good marine-type epoxies, like West Systems and System 3, are fairly low viscosity and will sink in well. I use West Systems with the slow 206 hardener for all of my pickup encapsulation; that is casting the pickup into a solid block. It works very well for that.

The West Systems isn't thin enough to do coil potting, though. For that I use Smith's MultiWoodPrime, which is an epoxy that flows about like water. It does a wonderful job potting coils. Then the West Systems goes over it all to form a hard outer shell.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

Yes, there are all kinds of epoxies with a wide range of viscosities. Most of the stuff that you buy in bubble packs in the hardware store is very thick and won't sink in. The good marine-type epoxies, like West Systems and System 3, are fairly low viscosity and will sink in well. I use West Systems with the slow 206 hardener for all of my pickup encapsulation; that is casting the pickup into a solid block. It works very well for that.

The West Systems isn't thin enough to do coil potting, though. For that I use Smith's MultiWoodPrime, which is an epoxy that flows about like water. It does a wonderful job potting coils. Then the West Systems goes over it all to form a hard outer shell.

How do you pot the coils? Do you have to soak it like you would with wax, or can it be applied to the coil in another fashion? That very well could be over my head, though...

[David King]

I notice that MG Chemicals sells a high temperature potting epoxy that's good for over 500º.
Encapsulating and Potting Epoxy Compound > RoHS Compliant

[big_teee]

I notice that MG Chemicals sells a high temperature potting epoxy that's good for over 500º.
Encapsulating and Potting Epoxy Compound > RoHS Compliant

David:
That is the UpSide!
The DownSide, is Mouser gets $41.36 for 12 Oz. bottle.
832HT-375ML MG Chemicals Chemicals
Don't know about You, But That is too Rich for my Blood!
B_T

[Bruce Johnson]

How do you pot the coils? Do you have to soak it like you would with wax, or can it be applied to the coil in another fashion? That very well could be over my head, though...

I string out a batch of coils on a wire rod, supported over a drip tray, and apply the MultiWoodPrime directly to the coils with a disposable wool dauber. Dab some on, roll them over, dab some on the other side, etc., until I can see that the coil is fully saturated. They are dry in 4-6 hours. I'll usually pot 8-24 coils at a time. If I were doing larger production than that, I might make up a dip tank. In my experience the MultiWoodPrime works beautifully as a potting compound. It glues the entire coil together solidly, but it doesn't dry rock hard or brittle. The coil has a little bit of give to it. That's exactly what you want (assuming that you aren't trying to deliberately create microphonics).

Downsides: It isn't cheap, and the fumes while it's curing are nasty! I do the potting on a bench right next to the open roll-up door.

[big_teee]

I string out a batch of coils on a wire rod, supported over a drip tray, and apply the MultiWoodPrime directly to the coils with a disposable wool dauber. Dab some on, roll them over, dab some on the other side, etc., until I can see that the coil is fully saturated. They are dry in 4-6 hours. I'll usually pot 8-24 coils at a time. If I were doing larger production than that, I might make up a dip tank. In my experience the MultiWoodPrime works beautifully as a potting compound. It glues the entire coil together solidly, but it doesn't dry rock hard or brittle. The coil has a little bit of give to it. That's exactly what you want (assuming that you aren't trying to deliberately create microphonics).

Downsides: It isn't cheap, and the fumes while it's curing are nasty! I do the potting on a bench right next to the open roll-up door.

Are you doing this in a pickup cover?
Most guys that do the EPoxy is trying to hide the Pickup from other winders.
Like putting the coils in a cover and filling up with epoxy?
Don't know much about any of it.
If I was just potting I would use wax.
T

[David Schwab]

David:
That is the UpSide!
The DownSide, is Mouser gets $41.36 for 12 Oz. bottle.
832HT-375ML MG Chemicals Chemicals
Don't know about You, But That is too Rich for my Blood!
B_T

The smaller bottles are more expensive... I get 3 litters of the black MG potting epoxy for $135 from Mouser. It's not the high temperature stuff though. It's not really an adhesive though. It's low viscosity and takes at least 12 hours to cure at room temperature.

[David Schwab]

Are you doing this in a pickup cover?
Most guys that do the EPoxy is trying to hide the Pickup from other winders.
Like putting the coils in a cover and filling up with epoxy?
Don't know much about any of it.
If I was just potting I would use wax.
T

Yeah, well it hides the pickup, but also, if your pickups are in covers like that, there's nothing to hold them together. They don't have base plates they are screwed onto. So the epoxy makes the whole thing solid. It also eliminates microphonics.

I do most of my pickups that way.