Working on a new winder. . .

[kayakerca]

Well, with Steve's help and guidance on the coding I have a good start on a new winder and interface. Been at it for a couple weeks now and it's a lot of fun as usual for a retired guy and a new guy to winding. Quite a bit different from the "butt ugly winder", but pretty tough trying to get a handle on Visual Basic some 35+ years since my last computer programing course in "old school" Basic in university. :-)

So far, it is basically a functioning computer interface and the "parts" required to build a Schatten Pickup style winder in that at $105 in new parts at retail pricing from Phidgets (controller, motor, power supply), it would be a manually guided system. Haven't crafted or built the hardware to hold the parts yet, but that's probably the easier part. Point is. . . Right now. . . the parts all work together as required. Pretty cool!

Here is a look at the basic parts hooked up and the interface I built from a sample program that came with the controller (with Steve's guidance). Probably take me a year to "get'r done!"

[rhgwynn]

Would you be so kind as to post links to everything you've bought, used, ect?

-Rob

[kayakerca]

Would you be so kind as to post links to everything you've bought, used, ect?

-Rob

Hi Rob:

Bought the motor, controller board and 12 VDC power supply at Phidgets Inc. - Unique and Easy to Use USB Interfaces

Total cost before taxes and shipping was $105. The motor is a biopolar stepper (1.8 degree) capable of 600 rpm with the Phidgets controller. You could go with a 3.75 degree bioplar stepper that would do ~ 1,200 rpm, but that would be hard to watch fly by with manual traverse. The software interface was done with a free version of Visual Basic Express 2010 and .NET platform, also free. The little interface program was based on one of the samples from their website which I tweaked up a bit to be more specific to pickup coil winder versus just running the motor. If you are handy and can make you own brackets and mounting plates, it is a pretty good deal as it would be the same as the Schatten and the SideWinder. Rotates in both directions, you set the direction, speed and acceleration (easing up to speed parameter so you don't break the wire), and it stops when it hits the number..

Phidgets Controller Board: Phidgets Inc. - 1063_1 - PhidgetStepper Bipolar 1-Motor

Phidgets Biopolar Motor: Phidgets Inc. - 3301_0 - 35BYG304 NEMA-14 Bipolar 27mm Stepper

Phidgets 12 DC Power Supply: Phidgets Inc. - 3024_0 - Power Supply 12VDC 2.0A - US

This is the start of a full CNC winder project, which with Steve's coding guidance, should be done in a while (probably a year based on my speed at things . However, the second motor for traversing (a linear actuator) will cost a LOT more than the winder motor. But hey, if you don't spend, your kids will when you're gone.

Here is a few more images of the bracket for the motor and the more tweaked version of the software interface.

[Chris Turner]

Subbed.

I'm interested to see what you come up with for the traverse.

I noticed that these controllers can be controlled using Actionscript 3 via Flash or Flex, too. That's very interesting to me, as I've built and continuously update all of the internal support applications in Flex at my job.

Sent you a PM.

[kayakerca]

Subbed.

I'm interested to see what you come up with for the traverse.

I noticed that these controllers can be controlled using Actionscript 3 via Flash or Flex, too. That's very interesting to me, as I've built and continuously update all of the internal support applications in Flex at my job.

Sent you a PM.

Hi Chris:

I believe finding a suitable traverser motor is less of a problem than the coding. Right now I'm looking at a Haydon (captive) linear actuator. Pretty expensive though.

Size 17 Stepper Motor Linear Actuator

Keeping my eyes open on ebay.

[kayakerca]

I've cleaned up the interface to make parameter selection of the winder speed and number of turns setup a little easier. Still moving forward. . .

[David King]

Those Haydon linear actuators seem like overkill for a traverse. Keep in mind that once the wire comes out of the guide it's going to do pretty much as it pleases regardless of the 5 decimal point resolution of your actuator. A simple, home-made anti-backlash nut on an acme threaded rod ought to get you within a wire's width of where you intend it to be. A piece of rubber tubing connecting your stepper shaft to your leadscrew and you should be good to go. You'll also have about 1000 times more torque than you'll need to move a .05mm wire from side to side. There are much smaller stepper linear actuators for sale on the surplus sites that could work this for a few $ I think. You can always upgrade later once you get the concept proven and need to make dozens at a time.

The interface looks great.

[kayakerca]

Those Haydon linear actuators seem like overkill for a traverse. Keep in mind that once the wire comes out of the guide it's going to do pretty much as it pleases regardless of the 5 decimal point resolution of your actuator. A simple, home-made anti-backlash nut on an acme threaded rod ought to get you within a wire's width of where you intend it to be. A piece of rubber tubing connecting your stepper shaft to your leadscrew and you should be good to go. You'll also have about 1000 times more torque than you'll need to move a .05mm wire from side to side. There are much smaller stepper linear actuators for sale on the surplus sites that could work this for a few $ I think. You can always upgrade later once you get the concept proven and need to make dozens at a time.

The interface looks great.

Hi David:

I have no plans to "make dozens" of these winders. I'm not doing this to try and become the next winder seller to this community. I'm just enjoying working on one for myself and thought members might find it interesting to follow a newbie along his journey. While I can't speak for Steve's coding contribution to the full CNC version, I am more than glad to pass along the interface for the Schatten style "hand guided" setup to anyone for free. Well, so long as they don't think they want to use it to make money off of that is.

As for the Haydon being over kill on $$$ and torque, you are right. But, in my opinion, a captive actuator is the best (well at least coolest) way to go technically. No nuts, no backlash. Clean, tight and pretty! That said, I won't be investing in a Haydon linear actuator until the traversing component if 100%.

[kayakerca]

So the hand guided version of the Winder (similar to Schatten style winder) is 100% functionally up and running. All I need to do now is mount it and add the wire guide (which is nothing). I just set it to a couple hundred winds for the short video. The winder goes through a preset acceleration so the wire doesn't break, runs at the specified rpm, then when it gets close to the required winds goes through a deceleration to the stop. Pretty cool for $105 in "electronic" type parts!

Phidgets Based Hand Guided Winder - YouTube

I'm happy how this manual setup turned out. Can hardly wait for the CNC version.

[rhgwynn]

Nice video - Really awesome! Mounted on a platform with a wire guide, I'd pay at least 200-250$ for that. I bet you could demand more though. How much did the machined parts cost?

It's my opinion, that the Accel and Decel should be a bit more gradual. At least 5-10seconds from start to full speed. I think it would be a bit more gentle.

-Rob

[kayakerca]

Nice video - Really awesome! Mounted on a platform with a wire guide, I'd pay at least 200-250$ for that. I bet you could demand more though. How much did the machined parts cost?

It's my opinion, that the Accel and Decel should be a bit more gradual. At least 5-10seconds from start to full speed. I think it would be a bit more gentle.

-Rob

I can slow down the accel/decel a lot more in the code no problem.

The machined parts probably cost about a buck and a half. 1 - 2" length of 4" X 4" angle for the base and two mounting plates, 1 - 3/8" X 3/4" and 1 - 1/4" X 3/4", each about 3 1/2" long. Maybe another buck or two for the wire guide setup. Now the milling machine I have in the basement. . . that cost one heck of a lot more!

I have no intention of selling winding machines. Actually, I'd gladly give the complied version of the application that runs the controller to anyone who thinks they might want to spend the hundred bucks or so on the Phidgets stepper controller, biopolar, etc.

[Chris Turner]

I have no intention of selling winding machines. Actually, I'd gladly give the complied version of the application that runs the controller to anyone who thinks they might want to spend the hundred bucks or so on the Phidgets stepper controller, biopolar, etc.

Now if we can just convince you to sell those machined brackets...

[kayakerca]

Now if we can just convince you to sell those machined brackets...

Ya, I'm guessing there's always a problem with selling stuff like custom brackets Chris. Probably close to a day to mill up a set of brackets for the mount the motor and the two for the bobbin mounting fixtures. That's when the guy wanting a set says to himself, "Hmmm, what's a day of my time worth?" then yells back at himself "Hey, I'm not paying THAT much! I can get those made in China for a $1.25!"

I'm just new to machining on the mill and do it as a hobby in retirement. Best thing would be to spec out your stuff and call up a local machine shop and see how much the pros think it's worth. Or, retire and sink $5,000 into a milling machine and a shit load of accessories so you can do something with it.

[kayakerca]

So, here's where I am today. . .

I have the traverser motor set up to run off of the parameters of the winder motor in combination with tpl and bobbin height variables. If I slide the “Winder Speed Selector” control they both adjust dynamically. So, it would run perfectly if the traverser motor were running a cam setup. But, that's not where this one is headed. Time to start wrestling with how to get it to traverse back and forth based on the current/target location of the linear actuator motor. Not quite sure how that one is going to go just yet. This is all just too much fun!

[kayakerca]

Yesterday's Progress. . .

By lunch yesterday, I had figured some code to get the traverser to travel back and forth. This is actually the real cool part for me. You just set the bobbin height and that's the distance it traverses. So, setting up for a any style bobbin is just a matter of changing the bobbin height field in the computer program. NO MORE CAMS. Also, the traverser motor is now set to lay down the specified tpl based on the bobbin height and the rpm of the winder motor. I know this is all old hat for you CNC winder guys, but building from the ground up for a "non-coder" is a huge challenge. Periodic guidance from Steve on visual basic and the operation of physical devices has been a huge help.

Next is setting up the initial direction of the traverse, left to right or right to left, depending on which side of the bobbin the traverse is to start from. After that, a routine to line up the traverse location start point.

Did I remember to mention. . . NO MORE CAMS!

Now, I'm sure when it's all done and up and running, it's going produce the biggest bird's nest every wound!