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How To Build A Magnet Charger (Guide)

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  • #31
    I have built (and daily use) 2 brute force speaker magnetizers ... which of course easily magnetize any pickup, what I often do for pickup winder friends.
    That said , those 20000 AT promised by the above posted design are not overkill by any means.
    Vacuum is the worst magnetic conductor (mu=1) , same applies to "air" and , bad for us, ceramic magnets which are not far from that.
    You need 800000 AT/meter to guarantee saturation in a ceramic , so those 20000 AT will cover 2.5 cm= 1 inch.
    Remember it's not only the magnet thickness but also any space not filled with iron (or nickel).
    Alnico is easier, both because it *is* a magnetic metal so its own mu is reasonably good, and its coercivity (resistance to magnetization/demagnetization) is lower, but you still need roughly 1/4 of the power needed for ceramics.

    FWIW my "small" magnetizer does up to 105mm (~4") diameter ceramics, is single phase powered, 220V (~200V DC), some 22/25 A , so it needs around 5 KW and lives at my shop ; the "large" one lives at a friend's Factory because it needs 3 x 380V (~500V DC) at 46 A , so some 23KW , does 150/155 mm magnets (think G12H/V30) , and now I'm building a larger one for 190/220 mm magnets (think EVM15 , E130/140 , etc.) *BUT* haven't finished it yet, because I doubt a regular 3 phase 380V line will be able to power it, and the necessary BIG capacitors for a Capacitive Discharge one are both VERY expensive and not available here.
    I *might* import a ready made one from China, but it will cost some U$20/25K FOB (it's not opnly the Power Supply but also the magnetizing coils and yokes) and don't know how much will I have to pay, both in taxes and bribes, to get it to my door, so it's still in standby for now.

    I write this to show how magnetizer costs rapidly escalate out of reach once you want to go beyond the smallest ones.

    You pickup guys have all the luck .
    Juan Manuel Fahey

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    • #32
      That's all really interesting stuff. I am primarily wanting to build a magnetiser to "re-charge" the magnets on old engine magnetos. But I also have an unhealthy (or perhaps to some healthy) obsession with free energy devices, many of which involve magnets. But from what you say I would need a pretty big machine to magnetise something like neodymium material. Still, if I keep my research small I could get away with the plans above.

      Anyway, it's unlikely I will be building anything very soon. Money is very tight & I have far too many other unfinished projects. But hopefully I will be sourcing parts for this machine around the summer time this year. The idea is to get a coil winding machine together as well so I can completely recondition old magnetos & bring in some extra money that way. I've been looking at cheap Chinese coil winders, but that's a whole other subject (which I expect is covered elsewhere on this forum, I'll have a look later).

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      • #33
        If you want to magnetize Rare earth magnets you will need another of order of magnitude.
        Magnetics 101 - Integrated Magnetics

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        • #34
          Yes.
          BIG problem with Neo and other Rare Earth magnets is that they require much *higher* than the saturation point of *any* ferrous material, so *no* iron cored magnetizer will do.

          They require *air* core coils which by definition do not saturate, relatively few turns, and hundreds or thousands of Amperes, (not a typo) which means Capacitive Discharge magnetizers only, and that with very good (expensive) capacitors and switchers.

          Expensive oil filled caps (not cheaper electrolytics) , charged at thousands of volts (think 4KV and such) are needed for such tasks.

          Personally I've decided to stick to ceramics for that reason for the foreseeable future.
          Juan Manuel Fahey

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          • #35
            The nice thing about ceramics and Rare Earths is that they don't discharge measurably over time so you really have no need to charge them anyway.

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            • #36
              Not the kind of thing one could rig up with some discarded disposable camera flash capacitors & a coil of wire then. (didn't think so).

              I have come across some very high voltage capacitor discharge circuits in my free energy research, but although the voltage is very high (thousands of volts) the current is very low. Even these circuits are lethal, & to be totally honest it's not something I feel comfortable "messing around" with, (although I do have some microwave oven capacitors in my collection (1000v @ 1uF)).
              I'm not an electronics genius (I am an ex-electrician, but that's a different kettle of fish) just an enthusiastic amateur/novice where electronics is concerned.

              Think I will just buy any rare earth magnets I need & keep to the plan of building a magnetiser for old engine magnetos (& perhaps the odd ceramic).

              I would still like to see the original Gingery plans, but I'm not willing to spend any money doing so. I think everything I need to build a good magnetiser is already at my disposal. The magneto guys generally look upon Gingery's machine as something of a "toy" anyway, but many of these guys are very much stuck in the past, believing that the heavier the machine the more power it will have (some of them don't even think free energy machines are possible! ), unfortunately many in the hobby are unwilling to accept modern technology.

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              • #37
                Some relevant and interesting information on chargers and charging here: Theory & Practice of Electromagnetic Design of DC Motors & Actuators

                George P. Gogue & Joseph J. Stupak, Jr.

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                • #38
                  hey everyone, does anyone know if the Gingery design could be modded to charge Alnico rods to a specified level, for example a de-gaussed neck PU on a strat set. I'm currently charging with Neo's and then knock back the neck PU magnets with a pass or two through some Ceramics with reversed polarity, it works ok, but would be nice to get a uniform charge each time.
                  cheers, Josh

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                  • #39
                    Just thinking aloud, some may apply ... or not.

                    * you want to magnetize to a lower level than you can currently achieve.
                    Nice, and way more doable than, say, trying to go beyond current maximum.

                    * so if you start with unmagnetized material, you might do fine with magnetizing is with less "intensity/strength" than currently available.

                    * if it were an electric circuit, you could reduce "voltage/current" by adding a series "resistor"

                    * magnetically, best "resistor" is plain air (or vacuum) meaning free space.

                    so I think you might use your current setup, just adding a certain thickness non magnetic material, which could be something as simple as a strip of wood, thickness to be found exprimentally.

                    I would insert a strip of wood between magnet and one of the current (passive) magnetizer poles, magnetize and measure.
                    It will probably be too weak, so shave some wood and repeat.
                    You will "waste" some time at the beginning, until you find optimum thickness, then youŽll just straight magnetize new ones and I guess they will be reasonably uniform ... and the value you want.
                    Definitely cheaper/simpler than building a Gingery machine.

                    YMMV , etc.
                    Juan Manuel Fahey

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                    • #40
                      Hey Juan, Yeh this is kinda how I'm doing it at the moment, with spacers, except I'm fully charging with Neo's and then knocking them back with ceramics and spacers. It works ok, but normally have to do it a few times over before I get a good reading across each pole. It seems the speed and how smoothly you move the bobbin through effects the charge.

                      I just thought if i could build an adjustable electronic magnetizer for around $200-300 it'd pay off in the long run.

                      I was thinking some kind of series resistance would do the trick, maybe a big rotary switch with different resistors would work, but it'd be a lot of trial and error working out the right resistance values for the charge on each set of pickups, probably quite impractical.

                      For anyone else thinking the same kind of thing, I've just found this on another thread

                      http://music-electronics-forum.com/t36699/

                      Mains powered and adjustable with a variac, looks like it'd be perfect for charging pickup magnets. Looks affordable and easy to build

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by jop120 View Post
                        hey everyone, does anyone know if the Gingery design could be modded to charge Alnico rods to a specified level, for example a de-gaussed neck PU on a strat set. I'm currently charging with Neo's and then knock back the neck PU magnets with a pass or two through some Ceramics with reversed polarity, it works ok, but would be nice to get a uniform charge each time.
                        cheers, Josh
                        variac
                        Jack Briggs

                        sigpic
                        www.briggsguitars.com

                        forum.briggsguitars.com

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