Solder?

[SonnyW]

I'll be the guinea pig. I just ordered a roll of SN62 from them. The shipping was a little steep - $11 something for priority mail, but that's not unusual and overall it was cheaper than buying what I have been getting from Mouser. We will see how things go.

[David King]

Janel sells the 62Sn-36Pb-2Ag solder in 1 and 2 LB spools for $48 and $52 respectively.
Kester Solder 22-7150-8802 |SN62PB36AG2 .031" 2 lb | janelonline.com
A 5 pounder is $250
The 2 lb price must be per LB??

[big_teee]

Janel sells the 62Sn-36Pb-2Ag solder in 1 and 2 LB spools for $48 and $52 respectively.
Kester Solder 22-7150-8802 |SN62PB36AG2 .031" 2 lb | janelonline.com
A 5 pounder is $250
The 2 lb price must be per LB??

They have some misprints at times, too many in fact.
You can email or Chat with them if you have any questions.
T

[SonnyW]

I think that price must be per pound. The price seems to vary with the diameter and core. I got the .031 diameter 1 Lb roll of it with the 50 core in .031 and the price was 40.19 with 11.5 shipping. But the Janel website is totally hosed up in the description which says in one place that the alloy is 62Sn/36Pb/2Ag and in another place that the alloy is "comprised of SN95SB05, or 95 percent tin and 5 percent antimony". Looks like someone is pretty careless with the cut and paste. I looked up the part number to be sure I was getting the right stuff that I wanted. I also got another roll of it coming from ebay for $17 plus $3.00 shipping. It isn't out of date, the mfg date is supposed to be 04/2013. We will see if it is the same stuff.

New Kester SN62PB36G02 031 1 lb Roll Solder Wire 24 7150 8800 | eBay

By the way, pay no attention to the expiration date on flux core solder, unless you are making some kind of life safety critical gear or something like that. Most manufacturers put an expiration date on any of the solder with flux. I guess they have to put down some kind of a date to keep warranty claims down. For Kester the rule is 2 years if it has more than 70% lead and 3 years from date of manufacture if it has less than 70% lead. But Rockwell Collins did a study on it once and found that those dates are ultra conservative. They did very scientific testing and found that 20 years is more like the correct number if it is stored properly. There may be some flux lost at the very end of the wire for an inch or so after long storage, but that is easily remedied.

http://www.ipcoutlook.org/pdf/flux_c..._life_smta.pdf

I should have mentioned, that this is for cored solder not solder paste which is a different thing.

[big_teee]

Question for SonnyW?
Have you compared the 50 core with the 44.
All the amp sites sell the kester 44.
I'm confused which I want to use on my new amp build, and of course on Pickups and guitars
So do I want the 44 or 50 Core?
T

[SonnyW]

The 50 core has to do with the size of the core I think. The flux inside is either #245 No-clean, or #44 rosin, or #285 etc... On the stuff I have now it is a #58 size core with #245 flux. I can't seem to find it now, but I think I read somewhere once that the 50 core size is about 1% flux and 99% solder and the 58 core size is twice as much, or 2% flux,98% solder.

Yes I have compared the 245 no-clean flux to the #44 flux and it seems to me to solder about the same. What I am comparing to is a little piece of a roll of larger size multi-core (like .062 dia.) that I had in my soldering kit for a long time. It is probably from over 30 years back from making up pc boards for radios. I don't know the alloy, I think it might be 60-40. I also have a couple of the 8 oz rolls of .032 diameter 60-40 rosin core from Radio Shack that are much newer. It isn't Kester but it is very similar, for this post I compared the MSDS sheets. Anyway, I can't tell much difference in the ease of soldering between all three kinds. I like the no-clean flux compared to the rosin, but it is a small thing, I never cleaned up the rosin core on stuff like pc boards anyway. The 245 no-clean flux is also rosin based. The residue from the 245 flux is clear and not corrosive. There is a light brown residue from the rosin core. I don't know if it really hurts anything. Supposedly alcohol cleans it off.

The alloy does make some difference in the likelyhood of getting a cold solder joint. The 63-37 hasn't got a paste range so it solidifies gradually and is less likely to get a crystallized cold joint. I will probably keep on using the 63-37 on amps and wherever I am not using silver plated wire, but I am going to switch to the SN62 for the rest.

[big_teee]

The 50 core has to do with the size of the core I think. The flux inside is either #245 No-clean, or #44 rosin, or #285 etc... On the stuff I have now it is a #58 size core with #245 flux. I can't seem to find it now, but I think I read somewhere once that the 50 core size is about 1% flux and 99% solder and the 58 core size is twice as much, or 2% flux,98% solder.

Yes I have compared the 245 no-clean flux to the #44 flux and it seems to me to solder about the same. What I am comparing to is a little piece of a roll of larger size multi-core (like .062 dia.) that I had in my soldering kit for a long time. It is probably from over 30 years back from making up pc boards for radios. I don't know the alloy, I think it might be 60-40. I also have a couple of the 8 oz rolls of .032 diameter 60-40 rosin core from Radio Shack that are much newer. It isn't Kester but it is very similar, for this post I compared the MSDS sheets. Anyway, I can't tell much difference in the ease of soldering between all three kinds. I like the no-clean flux compared to the rosin, but it is a small thing, I never cleaned up the rosin core on stuff like pc boards anyway. The 245 no-clean flux is also rosin based. The residue from the 245 flux is clear and not corrosive. There is a light brown residue from the rosin core. I don't know if it really hurts anything. Supposedly alcohol cleans it off.

The alloy does make some difference in the likelyhood of getting a cold solder joint. The 63-37 hasn't got a paste range so it solidifies gradually and is less likely to get a crystallized cold joint. I will probably keep on using the 63-37 on amps and wherever I am not using silver plated wire, but I am going to switch to the SN62 for the rest.

Thank you so much!
You wouldn't think there would be so many different types of solders.
And, I guess Kester makes some of all of them.
The roll of modern solder I am using right now is the Kester .062 60/40 44 I got from Mojo.
I have lots of old solder from the Tele Comm biz days, I like the Kester 44 best.
On amps, when I'm all done building on one, I take a brush and alcohol and clean all the flux off.
It is mainly a cosmetic thing, for that photo moment! lol
T

[Rick Turner]

Just be glad you're not doing jewelry solder with real silver solder or gold solder where you have to remember which temp you used on the last solder joint! You can wind up using three or ever four alloys for subsequent solder joints where you want to start with a high melt temperature, and work down.

[SonnyW]

The 44 has been used for years and it can't hurt much to use it all up. It has a good track record and all that, so It can't be too bad. I loaded up on the stuff I have now once when I could get it for if I remember correctly about $11 a pound. Anyway it was real cheap for such good stuff. Mouser sells it for $50 a pound. This was on sale I think because of getting close to the expiration date. I can't remember for sure where I got it I think it might have been MCM. Anyway I bought seems like it was 6 pounds I think, and I have used up only about one and a half rolls of that. I bought it right after I got a new soldering station and it came with the lead free solder. I was worried that because of ROHS I couldn't get the regular kind later, and I do hate using the lead free stuff. I was buying some anyway so I got the 63-37 and no-clean flux, and I like the .031 size. I got some of it also in .020 size at the same time. It is nice for a few things but I like the .031 diameter best. I like to pull about 3 or four feet off the roll and wrap it around a phillips screwdriver shaft, kind of like a spring about three inches long. Then I stuff the loose end down the middle of the spiral and it pulls through and makes a great little handy dispenser. It is a trick my dad showed me when I was a kid. When I get down to about three or four inches left I just twist the end piece onto the next one. I never lose a bit of it that way.

[SonnyW]

I know what you mean. My dad was an expert jeweler. He had a neat trick where he used a lead pencil sharpened with a knife so about 3/4 inch of lead was exposed to hold the little pieces of gold solder that he clipped off a sheet with dykes on the tip of it. I have seen him more than one time re-solder the prongs on a 1+ carat diamond ring with a hydrogen torch and never even take the diamond out. That takes a steady hand and nerves of steel. At one point he was doing all the repairs for 7 jewelry stores.

[SonnyW]

Update on the Sn62Pb36Ag02 Solder: I had one order from Janel, which arrived today and it was one pound of the correct part number with a mfg date of 3/27/12. the Price was $40.19 plus shipping. The shipping was $11. So I'd bet the Janel price is per pound. I also had an order from the ebay listing I posted. It came the other day and it was also the correct part number and the price was $17 plus $3 shipping. The mfg date on it was June 18, 2013. Both of them were .031 diameter, and both were the exact same Kester part number. I tried some of it out and it solders great. The joints came out quite shiny, both on joints of the silver teflon wire and on some that wasn't. It is a little bit stiffer than the 63/37 variety, enough to be noticeable when using it. As a test to see if that might be a problem, I used it to solder one side of a humbucker cover to the baseplate on a new humbucker build, and used the 63/37 to solder the other side. Then I cut the cover off with a hobby knife and it wasn't significantly harder to cut the Sn62 side. Both sides wetted equally well. I could not tell any difference in the melting temperature. As far as I could tell, either source is fine, and far cheaper than the main supply houses like Mouser and Allied, DigiKey etc.. All the packaging was intact, and there was no damage to either roll. I ordered several more rolls of the stuff from ebay while it is still available at that price.

[David King]

Kimber Wonder Solder (Lead Based)

If it contained Silver, this would have been mentioned, so no Silver.

From the stated price, it should contain gold. But again if it did, we would be hearing about it. So, no Gold.

From the stated melting temperature, 380 F (193 C) and the talk about it being able to deal with dirty joints and that it is "lead-based", I'm betting it also contains Zinc.

Solder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The closest temperature match is Sn89 Zn8 Bi3 (191-195 C), and no other kind of solder brackets the stated temperature.

This Sn89 Zn8 Bi3 alloy has a few disadvantages: "Prone to corrosion and oxidation due to its zinc content. On copper surfaces forms a brittle Cu-Zn intermetallic layer, reducing the fatigue resistance of the joint; nickel plating of copper inhibits this." ... For that brittle, moth-eaten sound ...

One could ask for the MSDS - needed for the Corporate Safety Program you know, and see what happens.

In any event, no way does Kimber make their own solder. There are better sources.

I see that Cardas sells a "quad-eutectic silver" solder with an even lower melting point of 338°F/170°C. Price is $20 for 50 feet on ebay. You can also buy it in 100g spools for $30 so about $140 a lb

Cardas Solder

Meanwhile I just ordered a 1 lb spool of the Kester SN62 from Sonny W's ebay seller for $20 delivered. No excuses at that price!

[SonnyW]

Evidently there is some demand out there among the higher end customers for using the silver containing solder. I just had a customer drop off his 1960 Strat for some work including some new pots that he furnished, and he provided a foot or two of his own silver bearing solder that he wants me to use. He's a regular customer, and a very knowledgeable one, but we had never discussed solder before. It is just a coincidence, but the timing is perfect for this thread, so I thought I would bring it up.

[big_teee]

Evidently there is some demand out there among the higher end customers for using the silver containing solder. I just had a customer drop off his 1960 Strat for some work including some new pots that he furnished, and he provided a foot or two of his own silver bearing solder that he wants me to use. He's a regular customer, and a very knowledgeable one, but we had never discussed solder before. It is just a coincidence, but the timing is perfect for this thread, so I thought I would bring it up.

Just Curious, if he mentioned why he thought it was necessary to use it?
I try not to mention the technical Aspect of pickups unless they mention it first.
Like Pickup wire?
I heard others say their customers want PE wire.
I've never had a customer talk Pickup internal parts.
They always just want them to sound good.
I have had a request for a 59 PAF sound, or a 68 Strat Sound.
I always say ok, and just make my regular Vintage type pickups.

[SonnyW]

Just Curious, if he mentioned why he thought it was necessary to use it?
I try not to mention the technical Aspect of pickups unless they mention it first.
Like Pickup wire?
I heard others say their customers want PE wire.
I've never had a customer talk Pickup internal parts.
They always just want them to sound good.
I have had a request for a 59 PAF sound, or a 68 Strat Sound.
I always say ok, and just make my regular Vintage type pickups.

All he said was, "and here is some silver solder that I want you to use" I think he was going on the recommendations of his brother. It is the brother that has the technical reason that he wanted it, and probably is the one that gave it to him to give to me. The customer is the musician and the brother is the more technical one on the electronics and guitar tech stuff. He didn't say much else about it, maybe he only wanted it because it sounds higher quality and there is probably some talk about it that some of the more audiophile types have posted on forums and all. It isn't really needed, since the wire is the regular pushback kind not the silver teflon. Mainly I think he just doesn't want to cut any corners on that old of a Strat, and I don't blame him a bit for that. Lots of people know that silver is a good conductor, and it sounds expensive so it "must" be better.

I have had customers that have wanted to specify some of the specs on their pickups that I was making for them. Usually they don't, but sometimes they do ask for the specs to match a specific year, or ask for PE wire, or a certain kind of magnets. A lot of them read up on forums, and guitar magazines. I think that's where they get it. They aren't all that different from us I guess for that matter. I'd say the magnet alloy comes up the most. When they do ask for the specs to match a specific year, I do my best to accomodate their request. It is easy enough.

I kind of like it when the customer wants to have some input into the design of a custom pickup, because it makes them have some ownership in the design, and feel like it is really customized to them, or even to a specific guitar they have. That makes them less critical of it for one thing. I have had one customer that has ordered over a several month period three custom pickups all basically very similar, but he wanted to tweak the specs on each one to better fit the style of music he wanted to play with the specific guitar they were going into. So they have different magnets in one and more windings in another, and so on. He was asking my advice, like what would this one sound like if we changed the magnet to Alnico 2, etc. and was very interested in listening to the explanations I tried to give. In one case in I did a magnet swap so he could hear for himself. Other times we would get out some of my test guitars that had maybe something similar to compare and for him to play and listen to. For example I'd say, "well it isn't exactly the same design as yours, but here are two guitars with humbuckers that are similar to each other but this one has Alnico 2 and that one has Alnico 5, or maybe something like this one is similar but wound a lot hotter than that one. Stuff like that. In the end he was very happy with the results. Several of my customers like that have even bragged online that they have their own "Signature Design" pickups, or want to give them a name that they have come up with and have me put it on the label. I just do it, and they are always happy.