Handguided humbucker winding...am I missing something

[jschweid]

Figured some of the guys on the forum might be able to clear this up. Was recently watching an interview with Seymour Duncan where he was adamant that humbucking pickups must be machine wound (ie not hand guided). Am I missing something? I've made hundreds of pickups handguiding the wire, with fairly consistent results, and great tone. In fact, I think my pickups sound better than many of the Duncans, including pricey custom shop pickups. Settled on a couple of "formulas" that I really like for my own playing....and I use those pickups in many of my guitars. I'm not a manufacturer or an expert by any means, but I enjoy tinkering with my own gear....and making pickups for friends.

I just wonder why he would say that. I can understand if you are trying to create exact and precise pickups that vary only minimally in tolerance why a machine would be more precise.

I guess it intrigues me a bit, as it probably does with all of us on this forum.

Does anyone have any suggestions on machine winders with automatic traverses? I know many people have built their own....I probably don't have the skill to do that.

Jonathan

[big_teee]

Since this is headed to a debate about winding machines, I'm moving it to tools and winders.
T

[Rick Turner]

Humbuckers...that is if we're talking Gibson...were always machine wound. That's straight from Seth Lover's mouth to my ears, just as Seymour said. Seth was not a dummy. He knew that to achieve matched coils, they'd have to be machine wound, machine guided, auto shut off, the whole nine yards. If you're looking for consistency, why would you hand wind anything?

And there is so much information here re. pickup winders that you really just have to spend some time digging.

As I've said before here, I have an old CoWeCo coil winder, and with it I can hold turns to exact numbers and DCR to + / - 1 or 2 %. And my wind pattern is exactly the same on every coil. So my pickups sound incredibly consistent which is what I want. You just can't do that by hand.

And I can work on something else while the machine spins away.

[David Schwab]

I remember seeing a photo of Bill Lawrence's winder, and he would do both coils on a humbucker at the same time, thus achieving perfectly matched coils. I think T.V. Jones does the same thing.

[Rick Turner]

That is no guarantee of matching coils' DCR as you're working with two (or more) tensioning devices. You'll certainly get the turns count matching, but that's no big deal at all to get right.

I wind a north up, then a south up, then a north, etc. figuring that my tension is not likely to stray much between two coils and neither is the wire itself. I wind at least eight coils of each magnetic polarity, solder the wire to two pin headers, and let the pickups sit so they're all at the same temperature when I read DCR. Then I match them as close as I can, and they're never more than 2% away from one another in DCR. Wind count is exact. Inductance is very consistent, too.

I know, I know, DCR matching is not the most important factor, but if I can match them, then why not go for it? It's just not a huge deal, especially when I'm making runs of eight to twelve pickups at a time.

[Jim Darr]

I remember seeing a photo of Bill Lawrence's winder, and he would do both coils on a humbucker at the same time, thus achieving perfectly matched coils.

I remember reading an article a long time ago (back in the mid-to-late 70’s or early 80s???) about Bill’s products and winding process. The thing that stuck out to me was his mentioning that in order to be truly effective at hum-cancelling the two bobbins needed to be auto-traverse machine wound at the same time on the same machine. The inference was this would match overall turn count, DC resistance, and layering pattern (TPL) between the two bobbins. My assumption was the dereeling systems would be identical and set up the same for each bobbin, thus approximating the same tension. I think he called it “Synchro-Wind” or something like that. Does anybody remember this?

That notion keep me away for winding HBs for many years since I only hand a hand-guided COWECO at the time. Since, I’ve learned that many tonal palates can be achieved by making the two coils different. Maybe not as effective at hum-cancelling as it could be, but great sounding none the less.

[John_H]

I remember reading an article a long time ago (back in the mid-to-late 70’s or early 80s???) about Bill’s products and winding process. The thing that stuck out to me was his mentioning that in order to be truly effective at hum-cancelling the two bobbins needed to be auto-traverse machine wound at the same time on the same machine. The inference was this would match overall turn count, DC resistance, and layering pattern (TPL) between the two bobbins. My assumption was the dereeling systems would be identical and set up the same for each bobbin, thus approximating the same tension. I think he called it “Synchro-Wind” or something like that. Does anybody remember this?

That notion keep me away for winding HBs for many years since I only hand a hand-guided COWECO at the time. Since, I’ve learned that many tonal palates can be achieved by making the two coils different. Maybe not as effective at hum-cancelling as it could be, but great sounding none the less.

I don't build humbuckers without at least a little offset in the coils. It softens the resonant peak.

I made a bunch of great sounding pickups by hand guiding the wire, but the auto traverse eliminates the guesswork for me, and keeps things consistent.

[Jim Darr]

I don't build humbuckers without at least a little offset in the coils. It softens the resonant peak.

I made a bunch of great sounding pickups by hand guiding the wire, but the auto traverse eliminates the guesswork for me, and keeps things consistent.

Totally agree!!!!!!

[big_teee]

Use what you have!
If you don't have a auto winder, then by all means, make them hand guided.
You can make a perfectly fine humbucker by hand.
If you're going to build and sell a ton of them, then gear up with a auto, or CNC winder.
I personally like Lower wound equal coils on the neck and hotter winds with a little offset on the bridge Pickup.
GL,
T

[jack briggs]

I don't build humbuckers without at least a little offset in the coils. It softens the resonant peak.

I made a bunch of great sounding pickups by hand guiding the wire, but the auto traverse eliminates the guesswork for me, and keeps things consistent.

unless you're going for that T-top sound.....

[ric]

unless you're going for that T-top sound.....

What's a T-top?

[big_teee]

What's a T-top?

Gibson T-top pickups.
Pickups Part 3: T-Tops | The Gibson ES-335

[ric]

Gibson T-top pickups.
Pickups Part 3: T-Tops | The Gibson ES-335

Thanks, Big_Teee. The article explains it well, then references an even more involved overview of Gibson humbuckers. Appreciate it.

[John_H]

Terry, did you read that article? It's crap. I wouldn't be spreading it around.

[big_teee]

I just scanned it, was just trying to point out what a T top is.
A lot of things on the internet are marginal.
Anything you can share on T-Tops would be great.
T