DIY cryo treatment

[defaced]

Yea, I am kinda a kill joy like that.

The reason why there's so much BS around it is because metallurgy (and material science as a whole) is not an easy topic; in practice it turns into hand waving with some thermodynamics thrown in for fun. So it's really easy to sound like you know what you're talking about without knowing anything, and it's really hard to prove someone wrong without alot of knowledge and experience. And even if you have two learned individuals talking about the same topic, they may not agree (kinda like the discussions on here). But as a case in point regarding plastics, attached is a white paper on cryo written by EPRI (Electrical Power and Research Institute), a consortium that the power companies fund to solve common industry problems. Plastics are listed in there there, so there probably is some work in the literature regarding cryo of plastics. cryog_processing_tc113571.pdf

I'm definitely not saying don't try it. I think empirical evidence is key in understanding things. But I wouldn't be surprised if there's no difference pre and post treatment (assuming there's a good way to measure such change). Oxides (which are a ceramic), like the coatings on tube elements, behave differently than metals. Also from my brief musings on the topic, cooling rate and heating rate may be important. These might be difficult to control in a DIY setup. Reviewing this paper might be worth it to see what materials are commonly used to evaluate their suitability for the treatment. Or just dunk and try. An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Edit: I just realized this was in the pickup winding forum. Ignore my comments regarding materials for tubes. I had never heard of cryoing a pickup, so assumed this was about tubes. Whoops.

[the great waldo]

Well you (as usual) take the strictly SCIENTIFIC approach to this marvelous money making enterprise Mike! Many many companies take advantage of the gee-whiz effect of cryo to claim anything about this stuff. There are people who claim that plastics somehow become miraculously harder on LN2 treatment (just ignore the destroyed surface of the plastic part) and there are people who will cryo treat your entire 1959 LP or 1937 Martin. There is such an air of magic around this stuff some poor fools freeze their (entire $$$ or parts $) dead body awaiting rebirth as a non sick/dead person.

Cryo treating whole guitars is great especially the cracked laquer binding broken pickups etc, etc, Plus the broken pickups adds a whole new meaning to tone. also the waiver that the poor sods who spend their money on this have to sign relinquishing their rights to any damage caused by the process is also Cool.
Cheers

Waldo

[tedmich]

Mike, I've actually read one of the cryo plastics papers, they have some (hard to get) data on hardness, modulus of elasticity etc in the base material and composites, and then EMs of the plastic surfaces which were totally torn up. Some of the tearing up will increase surface area and if composites are made you may get some interesting effects on shear, resistance to cracking etc. But these detailed and incremental scientific papers are usually freely translated to read: "cryo treat your pickup bobbins for a marked increase in material performance" whatever that means. As long as it doesn't (obviously) destroy them the customer will perceive an improvement; we're wired that way. And without real metrics (at the end) no one is the wiser; maybe transplanted Ted Williams Head will lead the league in batting average in the year 2134...

[defaced]

That's cool you've gone through the effort to read the literature. The surface tearing sounds like it has some cool applications, just not for the crude transducer that is a guitar pickup.

[Chuck H]

I just want to go on record as NOT believing the cryogenic treatment of anything other than austenitic steel has significant benefits at this time (No one needs to come back at me with info on superconductors or magnets operating at cryo temps. I'm talking about OUR stuff. And at room temperature). I've actually been one to poo poo the idea of cryo treating anything else since most research shows very little USEFUL difference made to other materials at this time. But as noted, people will try it anyway. And some will love it regardless of whether there's an actual reason. I only started the thread because I know the idea has been kicked around here and I endorse anyones right to experiment as they wish.