Speakon-14" combo jacks

[Ptron]

I have a Behringer ( I know ) PA that has speakon jacks. I bought a pair of Neutrik NLJ2MD-V speakon - 1/4" combo jacks hoping I could just pop them in and use it with my 1/4" cables without adapters.

It turns out the combo jacks only have the +1/-1 solder pins. The PA connects the -1 of one jack to the +2 of the other. I think this is somehow used in bridge mode. I haven't been able to find a combo jack that has all four pins. It doesn't look like Neutrik makes them. Does anybody else? Can this be done with the jacks I have?

Also, how, if you're only using 2 conducter cables is +2 used anyway?

[guitician]

Since you went to 2-pole I guess your going to have to change the original configuration. Just make it work for what you are doing and call it done.

[oc disorder]

Hi Ptron

"Can this be done with the jacks I have? "
Well you could rewire it to the "1" pins if you are not running it in bridge mode but if it is in bridge mode a metal shell of a jack could wreck the amp it it touched on a grounded chassis.
I would suggest changing the speakers to speakon
connectors as they are such a good connector.

I wonder how many techs have repaired power amps due to
faulty jack leads ?
If someone trips over a speaker lead made from jacks
the possibility of a short is much higher than one made from
the speakon range.
Its more likely the speaker box will get pulled down
using speakon !

I have occasionally seen musicians challenged by the removal
of a speakon plug it seems pulling back the clip and simultaneously
twisting is too complicated i.e. complex multi-tasking !
Funny how guitarists can play while simultaneously doin' the one
legged stomp box dance....but have difficulty with the above !
However I digress.

"Also, how, if you're only using 2 conductor cables is +2 used anyway?"
Short answer = No.
You are quite right re "I think this is somehow used in bridge mode."
In a stereo amp normally the output on both sides is wired
positive or "hot" to pin +1 and ground or negative is wired to pin -1.
However in bridge mode (mono) where one channel of the stereo amp provides the positive going signal and the second channel of the stereo amp provides the negative going signal there is no ground at the speaker connections as both connections come from the "hot" side of the amp.
Its kinda like push pull in a valve amp where the transformer (speaker)sits between one lot of valves going +'ve and the other going -'ve.
In bridge mode the signal going to the second power amp is inverted so its the opposite of the first channel of the power amp.
Another example in the Marshall mode 4 ? in which the power IC's are working in bridge mode thus any short to ground from the negative side blows the chips .. many examples on the forum on this.
So when you plug in your speakon connector to a bridge mode amp it is not connected to any of the negative pins ( -1 , - 2 ) and is connected only to + 1 (positive going signal) and + 2 negative going signal.
An exception to this is a stereo amp that (with the equivalent of 4 power amps) is wired permanently in bridge mode.
In a speaker box - 1 could be connected to + 2 because with a 2 wire circuit none of the negative pins (-1 , - 2) would be connected through from the amp.
I'll attach a pdf its a section from a Neutric pamphlet on the standard for wiring their connectors and may be a useful reference.
Sorry for the large size (705kb) but I am getting an error message on the attachment uploader "This is not a valid image file." with my jpgs but PDF's are uploading.

[SatchmoeddieII]

Switchcraft used to make what was part of their "Fast-On" line that were another, better quality, version of the speakon stuff. They had all kinds of configurations, but since Neutrik had their name everywhere, and on everything Switchcraft discontinued the line, but there may still be some out there. I can look through the Mouser catalog and see what pops up. Mouser, Newark, Digikey, and Allied are all major sources for me. Mouser is your best bet, but they no longer sell the "fast on" stuff though, but they have an extensive selection of stuff. I will not say anythin about your Behringer if you do not comment on my Valco obsession. They were the go to company for cheap amps from 1946-1970 for loads of guitar companies with no amp shops. Look at them now, A Supro 5 watt class A went for $550 on eBay, and it was probably $35 new. Best of luck, and I will even see if I saved the old page with the fast on numbers. It would be in the storage for amp cabs, and guitar cases, so I may not see it ever again, but I will check.

[oc disorder]

SatchmoeddieII do you mean this ?
Switchcraft

Completely compatible with Neutrik® Speakon® 4 pole connectors
30A rating per UL 1977 on PC mount versions

or are you refering to XLR connectors or something else

With xlr's the standard of pin 2 hot pin 3 cold seemed to be ignored for years.
Desk manufactures even provided the option of pin 2 or pin 3 hot !
Well it was the old stereo connector X L R
X = ground L = Left R = Right
Never seen a Hi Fi fitted with one , just heaps of ridiculously expensive RCA plugs !
Well Hi Fi's dont have balanced inputs either.

I thought the Neutric commector was a great invention. When you see idiots plugging XLR poweramp output into XLR line in it makes sense to have a completly different connector.
The Speakon are high current and have great physical integrity , contacts get wiped (cleaned) when you twist.

Some of the cheap generic copies leave a little to be desired but Neutric must be doing something right if Switchcraft are producing them under licence and manufactures fit them as standard to their products.

And no I don't have shares in Neutric but maybe I should !

Still having problems uploading a web saved gif.
Switchcraft.gif: (the uploader amended the file with a colon)
This is not a valid image file.

[SatchmoeddieII]

I actually found that page, but no help there. What the deal is with other Neutrik jack wiring diagrams is I am unsure. You do not have that jack. Bridging stereo to mono is a lot easier with solid state than tubes. My old MC2500 had 2 u shaped bars that went into RCA jacks, and put the outputs in a series out producing a lease breaking 1000 watts. Do you need 4 conductors? I am wondering if you do not need to get some 1/4" jacks with contacts on them, and wire them in seperatly. I can only assume you are running either 2 channel stereo, or a bi amp to need 4 conductors. I will look and see what is in Mouser's catalog. Kobicon, Switchcraft, and Neutrik all make audio jacks od decent quality. Compared to the cancelled Switchcraft line Neutrik is second rate in materials used.Self cleaning silver plated oxygen free copper contacts beat brass any day. Neutrik uses brass, but costs about 1/3d the price. I just put in 1/4" seperate jacks with open and closed contacts on my old Fender 135 watt PA, and added some speak-ons. The cabs were another headache, as I need to run either a pair of Marshall 1965, or regular 8 ohm PA spkrs, or 2 4 ohm 4X12 custom made cabs in series. Only having an 8 ohm out kinda sucks. I can mic my little Supro, and then blow the windows out though. What exactly is your goal in having both types of jack, and how will it be used? Once that is established an answer is easier to give. Wiring that PA was a royal pain, but it is all tube, and louder than a Marshall (except a Major)

[oc disorder]

SatchmoeddieII I'm assuming Ptron has two jack leads he wants to plug into his amp.The connectors he bought (NLJ2MD-V) he was hoping to fit to his PA. They are a dual connector that accepts both Speakon and Jack like the
recent female XLR's that accept both XLR or jack.
However the wiring (correct me if I am wrong Pton) in the Behringer even though it only uses 2 wires has connections to 3 pins.
He can wire it anyway he likes, I was suggesting he use all Speakon
and keep the wiring standard to avoid any catastrophes down the line.
ie other speakers or leads connected by friendly people trying to be helpful during setup.
"My old MC2500 had 2 u shaped bars that went into RCA jacks, and put the outputs in a series out producing a lease breaking 1000 watts"

I presume the 2 u shaped bars put the amp into bridge mode but you would have only connected the outputs to the 2 positive terminals ?

Bridging stereo to mono is a lot easier with solid state than tubes.

Bridge mode is different to bridging stereo to mono .. the tube example was purely an analogy to how bridge mode works .although probably a stupid one in hindsight.

[SatchmoeddieII]

No its a compatible speakon, but maybe Switchcraft had a time/date license, or maybe none at all, and got slapped fro infringement. When I noticed Switchcraft no longer was selling throuhg Mouser, I dug out the old catalog, and ripped that page out. I completely agree on the XLR and a different jack/plug assembly. I actually like Neutrik, but if I had to chose based upon absolute quality I would go Switchcraft. I actually make more money everytime I use Neutrik, as I can mark it up more without blowing the price to the stratosphere. I just got a bunch of Neutrik cables for my repair bench to run to the PELs. I love the way I can split the fixed banana plug apart, and get around the center ground on the PEL. Neutrik will give a price break if you mention Neutrik on every piece of literature, or ad for your product. It is a nice set up, and well overdue. I do not want to suggest at all that Neutrik is junk, it is well made, and they have kept the prices down 60 or 70% compared to Switchcraft. We are doing live, or amplified instruments, and do not need 99.99998% OFC, nor 99.3%silver/.3%gold wires, so Neutrik gets a definate nod of approval. $5.00 each compared to $14.00 each lets me buy more for my money. Unless I am wiring in a $80,000 stereo in a $140,000,000 house, it is not really needed. Part of the $140 million went for the mountain the house was on. That job is best forgotten, but his weapons room looked like a scene from the Matrix, and he had a radio room etc. Survivalists with lots of money make for strange clients. In my Mouser cat. Speakon (original) is listed as a fast-on connector, and then they have the SPX, STX, and PowerCon connectors. When places started going smoke free I noticed stuff stays cleaner on my equipment. I put Augat Alco silver contact with gold plated terminal switches in my guitars to avoid having to ever clean them. That was 25 years ago, and I was cleaning stuff every year before that. These ar coil tap, and phase/coil drop switches. The old Gibson Switchcrafts are still good in the LPs, but the SGs get cruddy sometimes. Who knows who made what first. I am just really glad Neutrik marketed it successfully to the music industry. Like you said" with nothing but XLRs or 1/4" phone jacks stuff gets plugged in wrong", and the Speakon/Faston was way overdue. The locking 1/4" phone jack is OK for some stuff too, as is the break away 1/4" plug. I can stop sweating about the ESs getting busted when the cord gets yanked at an angle. Those are getting stupid expensive, and are a pain to work on.

[SatchmoeddieII]

Nice web page. YES THAT VERY COMPANY< but they did discontinue some stuff, and Mouser stopped selling those part numbers. I am not really heart broken. About faulty jack leads. I have had some come through, and the best was a headphone plug broken off in the jack. It stumped 2 other techs, and came kind of close with me, but I have seen it before. I got started in the amp game when I was about 13 or 14, and rewired the tube sockets for my mom's old 1959 Supro 1624 Rhythm King. I also got to experience the 450 volts to the plates up close and personal. I lost part of my skin, and flesh in that episode. It was still sizzling and smoking between two tag terminals. I found the amp had been modified. Someone took the tremelo out of the circuit, and used 1/2 of it as a gain stage on channel 1, and also made some input mods too. I became an industrial electrician later in life, and started with outdoor line work. I am redoing the 1959 Supro again, but putting in 2 DPDT relays per volume pullpot, and making it so it will run as either a stock 1624, or the modified one. I thought about remote foot switching, but I would reather not drill any holes, as I have saved all original parts.

[oc disorder]

Test to see if jpg's are now an valid image file and upload to forum.

This is a modified picture of Neutrik's Speakon wiring suggestions
showing normal 2 channel wiring and how bridge mode connects the same as the uploaded PDF (Speakon Wiring.pdf) in post 3.
This is corrected as the PDF shows the +'ve terminal of channel 2 shorting to the ground of channel 1 if a standard wired 2 wire cable (+1 , -1 )was used.
A bridge cable would only have pins + 1 and + 2 wired.

[Ptron]

Ahh. So bridge mode only works with an actual 4 conductor speakon cable and speakers or a bridge cable. I Suppose I should have found this manual and read it first.

http://www.behringerdownload.de/PMP1..._ENG_Rev_B.pdf

In that case it doesn't much matter if I switch out the jacks. Sounds like I won't ever be using bridge mode. I appreciate where you're coming from, OC disorder, but I don't think I'm going to convert all my speakers to speakons or drop the dimes on the cables. Mine are nice and have worked fine for years. I can always put the old jacks back in if I ever change my mind.

[Steve Conner]

The standard wiring for 4 pole speakons on amps is:

1+: Left channel +
1-: Left channel -

2+: Right channel +
2-: Right channel -

Therefore there are no "left" or "right" speakon jacks on the amp as such, the choice of left, right, bridged or bi-amp is made in the speaker cable and speaker cabinet. I think this is intended to make it more flexible for active bi-amping and so on.

I find this confusing, and for my own homebuilt amps I prefer to wire one channel to one speakon socket, strapping both contact sets in parallel, but this is non-standard. If you plugged it into a 2-way cab that expected biamping, it would destroy the tweeters.

If I were the original poster, I'd make some speakon to 1/4" adapters myself, wired as left and right.

Also I believe the contacts in them are silver plated.

[Ptron]

Maybe I need a sanity check here but it looks to me from tab 4.1 on page 8 of the Behringer manual like I can pop in those combo jacks and either have stereo mains or main/monitor, which is all I really want.

I already have some adapters that I made, but I have nit-picky reasons why I'd prefer to just have the combo jacks.

[Steve Conner]

OK, I guess there must be a switch or two on the back that routes the two power amps to whatever pins of whatever sockets you want. So yes, just set that switch right and it should work with the adaptors.

[SatchmoeddieII]

I am, or was going off of probably 3 year old information, and since Switchcraft stopped marketing their fast ons the point became moot. I just got a home built 2 channel 150 watt 8 ohm load for running line out. It also has two coils about 1 mHy each. That is a reactive equivelent of like 2 Oxford 50 watt 12" speakers, or 4 greenbacks. I will be wanting to make this so I can rune either resistor in series with one another or parallel. The coils are just coils, and really do not react well across a swept frequenct signal, so I shall most likely put a couple magnets in the center of each coil, and maybe introduce some other resistors with some 1/2 ohm, or 1 ohms to bridge across when I run out to a speaker. I am still unclear as to exactly how these were used, but the price I paid is great considering they fulfill an immediate need for something to run in series or parallel with the PEL so if it trips I do not open the output leads to infinity, and blow an output x-fmr. I will definately be using some 1/4" jacks with both NO, and NC contacts in the near future. Neutrik has the SPX line that is their super harsh conditions jack and plugs. I would never get anything done if all I did was keep up on everybodies new products. Speakon was origanally a Faston jack, but Neutrik, bless them, made such a wonderfully successfull marketing campaign that they are a household word for anyone into amplified music. If all you neede was a way to hook up both a 1/4" phone, and Neutrik plug(s) use +1 for both, and -1 for ground, and +2 can be either shorted to +1 or ignored depending on if a stereo 1/4" jack is used. My 1/4" mono speaker plugs all had a large plastic ring so it would never contact the second ring on a stereo plug. I have not seen those in a while, and bought everyone they had when Capital closed them out. I only have 1/4" on the guitar heads, and the big 135 Fender, but it has had Neutriks added. If it works with +2 not hooked up great. The last bi amp I fixed was a 60s Gibson LP 2 solid state. That was a dog. No transistor numbers to be had anywhere for replacements. I had to do the math and pray a lot.