Why Techs are Cranky

[Ronsonic]

So I've got this thing on my bench. Major company wandered off into the world of SMPS for tube amps recently. It di'nt work. Nightmare failure rates no parts, etc, they actually resorted to writing refund checks to the owners for warranty repairs. Me, I hadn't dealt with this but was semi aware of issues.

Customer brings in the 100W head. "Just bought this on eBay*" Lights up no sound. Dig in, no B+. Unit has been opened before. Sharpy marks on wiring to the supply.

Call Mfr. There's a tech bulletin on that. They email the bulletin and two pages of schematic that don't include the supply. Bulletin sez if no B+ supply replace Q1-4. Does not say what those are. Push the "reply" button on my email. A couple days later they send a form to E-Sign swearing that this info won't be given away or used by an incompetent. So I call and get ahold of someone competent and reasonably knowledgeable who emails everything they've got on it. Yep PSU map. Order the two SMT transistors that weren't on the shelf.

This customer is calling daily. He is in auto body repair, nudge nudge wink wink. Seems to believe that the more and louder he talks the sooner the manufacturer responds and the faster the UPS truck drives.

Customer brings in full JJ tube set. Says the customer service guy at Major Mfr told him the R*** branded tubes cause problems like this. Whatever. He's still calling daily. Parts arrive and are installed. No joy, HT section of supply still not firing. Call customer with update at end of day (hey, I told him I would call as soon as I had something useful to tell him). Start digging into the outer rings of SMPSU hell. We're at the two week mark here.

Customer calls next morning talks to our counter man. Says he called Major Mfr and they think we are definitely jacking him around and that parts are certainly available. We call Major Mfr, no record of this guy calling but hey, who knows. "Is the supply available?"

"Of course, I'll transfer you to Parts."

No supply in parts. Of course there isn't, they have never had these.

Call customer, leave voice mail. Either we bail on this or he accept that it is an R&D project that WILL be back burnered. Stay late to get some stuff done, the guy is war-dialing the phone after hours. Get someone else to take his next call and explain that yes, he'll look at whether it is a viable repair and will be able to tell him by next Tuesday.

So the question is: who wants to bet whether he calls tomorrow or not?

Ron

Now surpasses "I loaned this out and this is how it came back" as Number One counter phrase.

[bajaman]

I empathise
I had a Gallien Krueger micro bass combo in for repair a couple of years ago.
The SMPS had shat itself, so I rang the local authorised service centre tech (700 miles away) who told me he had never seen one of those before.
he said he would try and obtain a replacement supply from GK but he would not be placing an order immediately - could be 2 months away and $400 NZ dollars - he didn't know the exact price - did I wish to place an order?? etc.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Anyway (don't ask me how I got it) I was looking through the Gallien Krueger CD rom with all their schematics etc (no SMPS schematics of course) when I happened to come across a service bulletin which described how to replace the switching power supply with an analog supply. The authorised service tech should have alerted me to this bulletin - but i guess he was unaware of it's existence
Anyway the point to all this: The reason given by GK for this replacement bulletin - TO INCREASE RELIABILITY
Fuck SMPS - leave them in computers where they belong - give me a big arse transformer, a bridge rectumfryer and some 105 degrees C capacitors any day!!!

[Enzo]

The problem with the GK switchers was not that they were switchers, but the mechanical layout. The transistors were screwed to the chassis while the board sat above. Legs broke off of transistors and rectifier TO220s. Zaniness ensued.

They found they could not make them reliable from a repair perspective. You could replace the thing with the old transformer and linear. of course that was $250 plus installation. On the GK disc, look in the file ML series, then ML Series schematics. There is the switcher. And in the ML Series service manual files it is covered in some detail.

Customers? There is a time to bite the bullet and say to such a "customer", "I am sorry, I cannot repair this unit within a reasonable period of time nor at a reasonable expense. Therefore for YOUR protection, I must decline the repair. Here is your unit back. Perhaps the next repair shop will have better luck."


I had a guy once bring me some dumb little Behringer V-amp. Kinda like a Pod. Called twice a day. I needed some little part on it that wasn;t generic, like a control or an encoder, I forget. He didn;t call me at one point, then called me later wanting to know why I hadn't called him with an update. I told him there WAS no update, things sat as they sat the last time we spoke. Well, he was "very disapointed" in me, and he expected updates. What kind of repair shop doesn;t call with updates?.... on his little entry level practice fuzz box. I seriously thought of calling him once an hour to repeat the phrase, "there has been no change in the availability of the parts for this repair."

I had visions of the 100 repairs in the shop and having to call all the owners once a day to tell them we were still waiting for their part to arrive. Meanwhile eventually his thing came together and I call to tell him it is ready. His phone answer machine said "Hello, it is April 12, please leave a message." Except it was really April 20 or thereabouts. I gotta make update calls but his phone machione doesn;t need to? I left a few messages, none returned, over the next few days.

Well, a couple years later, I was looking over the shelves for things to have my buddy sell off for me, and it was still here, so I handed over the V-amp. I got my repair price out of it anyway.


Ever notice the guy who really needs it for a gig Friday actually gives you until Friday? But the guy who drops it off and says, "There is no rush on it," will be the guy who calls every day. And the guy who calls every day is the one who doesn;t come pick it up once you tell him it's done.


Got a big old PV 1.3k with a blown channel. I had run out of MJ15024, and no one had stock at the time. Expected soon, but back ordered. This guy was sly. He'd drop by every day, and he'd make up some question, "say, I saw your truck out there, I was wondering how do microphones work?" Or some such. And Oh by the way is my amp done. No, I'll call you when the parts come in. Phone rings, "Hi, I was driving by and saw yo0ur truck there, and I was wondering, how can I connect another amp to my mixer? OH and by the way is my amp done. No, I'll call you when the parts come in.


Had a guy bring in an old Pioneer reel to reel deck, all bound up. Tore it apart, relubed it, made it work. Guy kept complaining. Levels were not exact between playback and record. He kept finding things he felt we should have "corrected." I eventually had to ask the guy how much he wanted to put into the 15 year old piece of consumer electronics to make it into studio gear.

[jrfrond]

When parts availability becomes an issue and the customer is irate and/or calling incessantly, I now turn them over to the manufacturer's support line. I give them the phone number, and let the manufacturer deal with it. I have found that manufacturers listen to cash-paying customers rather than "leaching, scumsucking, greedy" service centers, and a call from them can light a fire under the right asses. I refuse to look bad anymore for a manufacturer that cannot/will not expedite parts and/or service docs and/or support for us lowly service centers. I hate to be cynical, but I've worked for manufacturers/distributors, and I know EXACTLY how they view service centers, because I have sat in the factory service manager seat.

I have an issue right now with keyboard manufacturer that just switched distributorship (Ronsonic knows EXACTLY who I am talking about), and the customer was calling every day. In the meantime, I am getting the 6-8wks. backorder routine (aka as a "container cycle". You don't think they are going to send your much-needed parts via air, now do you?). So, here's the distributor's phone number Mr. Customer. Have a party!!!

I also refuse to re-engineer/reverse-engineer recalcitrant, poorly-designed products. That is, unless we are paid handsomely to do this.

Customers who welch on repairs? Everyone who walks through our door pays 1hr. labor ($125.00) up-front, or they can go elsewhere. If they refuse the estimate or try to pull a fast one, we keep the $125.00. No more free rides!

Like many of you, I have been in this business a LONG time, and refused to have our shop be treated as a whore, whipping boy or a source of freebies. Between customers and manufacturers, that kind of treatment can get WAY out of hand.

[Enzo]

I often have told customers to call the factory, that the factory will listen to them a lot more than they will listen to me.

[Dennyps4]

I feel for you guys, you'd think that the mechanic would be compassionate about repair work. I guess ignorance carries over into the field itself. Repairing computers for years, I simply started telling customers, you'll get it when you get it! My work speaks for itself, if you want the job done right, then you will wait, or take it somewhere else and get overcharged and screwed over. Quality work takes time and patience, and the "your way, right away", American theory, does not apply to quality repair work, IMHO. My 2 cents. LOl

[Gibsonman63]

For the end user warranty vs. non-warranty makes a huge difference. Some of the manufacturers' certified (is that the right word?) service centers are just glorified PC board swappers when it comes to repairs for certain manufacturers. I have a Mackie 1640 mixer that I picked up used therefore had not warranty. If it had been under warranty, the local distributer would have just swapped it out with a new one, then somewhere down the line someone would swap out the bad power supply board, then they would have sold it as "B" stock. After waiting for over three months for Mackie to send a power supply board to ther local certified repair center, Mackie could still not commit confirm when the board would be available or if it had even been shipped (literally in a slow boat from China). I am very well aware the it is not the fault of the repair facility and contacted Mackie directly numerous times to get resolution, but no satisfaction was to be had. The local service center was kind enough to let me pick it up at no charge, I replaced all of the electrolytic capacitors on the power supply board (shotgun approach), and it has worked perfectly for the last two years.

Is that part of the agreement with some of these manufacturers that board swapping is always done instead of board-level troubleshooting? These guys have been in business for a very long time and it seems that they could have just as easily (or more easily) done the repair as I did.

[clydey]

in praise of Marshall

got this family band going.
youngest majors on the trumpet/ plays a bit of guitar.
anyway a few years back gave him the money for an amp and no advice.
chooses marshall avt 150 brand new fair enough , tube man myself.
other son a drummer borrows it for a jam long term and stores it at the pub
youngest finally gets it back 2 channels not working.take it up to the marshall factory (an eighty mile drive) they can fix it while you wait if you book says I.(I had been out of the amp repair side). no he gives it to the local freelance bernie the bodger who kept it for 6 months. gets it back with 2channels still not working and now no effects either, charges him £50 and the advice you did not want to spend another £25 on a Marshall specialist chip did you.
Spoke to the local music store oh we got rid of him would you like some repairs? answer if and when i get up to speed.
tells youngest to keep hold of amp i will look at it when i am ready.
did so last week.
output chips or boards both sporting shit soldering.
numerous switching devices of the wrong package crudely tacked on and dual in line op amps badly soldered as replacements.
he was either robbing peter to pay paul or did not have much of a clue.
Phoned Marshall with parts requirement but their health and safety policy means that the public cannot obtain electronic parts that need working on the board.
Thankfully i had amassed the right repair equipment and had started repairing again so good lady tells me to send in list of qualifications and experience.
got registered on Thursday for parts and tech info and image bank sight for schematics oh and the special effects PLUG IN board £7.50
Marshall in my experience is up at the top.

[Enzo]

Is that part of the agreement with some of these manufacturers that board swapping is always done instead of board-level troubleshooting?

I have no idea what you are talking about, I am an authorized Mackie repair station. They certainly have no "swap boards first" sort of policy. I am sure if I called them and said the existing board is unrepairable - burnt up or whatever - they would come up with a board. But we are expected to repair the boards in the products.

Many manufacturers now have "do not repair" lists. Those are entry level inexpensive products they would rather exchange complete than pay $50 to have repaired. But I can;t think of any factory that expects board swaps.

[Gibsonman63]

Thanks, Enzo. Now it is striking me as really strange. This place has been open for 30+ years and they are known in town for being able to rebuild vintage high-end boards as well as being one of two certified Mackie repair facilities here in Houston. They did correctly diagnose the problem as being the power supply board, why they insisted on doing board swap instead of changing out some obviously buldging capacitors is beyond me.

Is it really possible that this board is on the "do not repair" list? With the firewire card these things sell for $1,700 new.

The upside is that I fixed it for $35 instead of the $300 they were going to charge me for the board swap.

The other upside is that now I take things apart to look for the obvious problems first and I haven't had to take anything in for repair since.

[jrfrond]

I have no idea what you are talking about, I am an authorized Mackie repair station. They certainly have no "swap boards first" sort of policy. I am sure if I called them and said the existing board is unrepairable - burnt up or whatever - they would come up with a board. But we are expected to repair the boards in the products.

Many manufacturers now have "do not repair" lists. Those are entry level inexpensive products they would rather exchange complete than pay $50 to have repaired. But I can;t think of any factory that expects board swaps.

+1 on this. The last company that I recall expected board swaps was Ensoniq. In fact, you couldn't even get schematics until after the models outlived their warranty cycle!

If a unit is in-warranty, there are times when we will swap a board to expedite the repair. It's a matter of economics sometimes. If we are allowed a 2hr. maximum at $50/hr. for a total of $100 and it takes the tech 3hrs. to troubleshoot at $25/hr., we wind up making only $25 for the repair, and our regular labor rate is 5x that amount. You do the math. It's a business, not a charity, and if we can do it in 1hr. with a board swap, that helps us expedite other repairs. Then again, many times the PCB is either not available or on "someday" backorder, so we have to troubleshoot in those cases. There are some companies who absolutely frown upon PCB or module replacement. Then you have no choice.

[Enzo]

No, a $1600 anything would not be on the replace only list. And I did look your model up to see if it might be. DO not repair lists cover things like little Strat-pack gimme amps, and Fender Frontline series. ANything under $100-150.

[wcrankshaw]

I realize this is sort of a threadjacking, but you guys all sound like you've been in the tech business for a while. Do any of you have, or have you had in the past, contacts for good techs in Nashville?

[jrfrond]

No, a $1600 anything would not be on the replace only list. And I did look your model up to see if it might be. DO not repair lists cover things like little Strat-pack gimme amps, and Fender Frontline series. ANything under $100-150.

Although the Super Champ XD is now on the "no-fly" list too.

[Enzo]

yeah, sometimes the line is surprising. I can see the little Champion 600 as a toss item. But I was surprised when I found the FM212R was an exchange, and a 60 watt bass combo like the Rumble 60.