Why Techs are Cranky

[Enzo]

I am generally far more generous than my posted policies, but I do have a sign posted stating items left over 90 days after notice will be sold or discarded. You can add a disclaimer to your repair form or claim check stating items left more than 90 days after notification of completed repair will be sold or discarded. And you can remind the customer he DID sign that.

[unparalleled]

Unfortunately I do not have printed forms.
I have only got back into the Valve amp scene in the last 12 months.
I stupidly? expect people to treat me with the same respect and honesty which is offered to them at my spot .
This will change( Forms) soon.

[Enzo]

I am a cheap bastard, myself. I look at preprinted company forms and think, why spend the money. I use cardstock tags when repairs come in. These are the heavy manilla things about 65x130mm with the end 45mm perforated so it can be torn off as a claim check. A reinforced hole at one end comes with a piece of string in it, so i can tie it onto a handle.

The tag is not the point. I have a self-inking rubber stamp sitting near me, it has the company name, address, and phone. I use it to stamp return address on an envelope, etc. So rather than pay a ton for preprint tags, I just stamp this thing on the back of each claim check. It would be very simple to go to the office supply store and have a stamp made with any disclaimer policy you want on your forms. And a signature line for "I accept these terms."

And same with invoices or repair orders. It may be real professional to buy nice printed forms with color logos and whatall, but I find generic business forms from the stationer work fine, I can stamp my stamper on the top of a page if it needs our name on it.

I run a small shop, so it is not like I have a billing secretary or anything. I fill out work orders when the repair is done and attach them to the repair tag. MAny shops use invoicign software or even just QUickbooks. But then I have to sit at a keyboard and enter all the info on the screen. Fooey.

Of course you can just use NotePad and print out a service order from your computer, and that can include any policy text you want at the bottom.

[jrfrond]

Don't anyone take this personally, but at the intake level, labor rate and locale we are in (the heart of NYC), it has to LOOK good, plus we need to have safeguards and efficiency measures in place (e.g. complete searchability of any unit or parts), and it is a bit of a "Dog & Pony Show" upfront for the clientele. Hence, we DO have preprinted workorders, invoices, parts order form, coding systems, and databases I compiled myself to handle it all. We DO have those same handwritten forms that Enzo uses in case of a catastrophic computer failure or downtime. It's the only way to logistically deal with the heavy traffic flow through the door AND shipped in, plus six techs, parts sales, etc. A nice, small, compact service business can be managed manually, but I worked hard at growing this, and well, be careful of what you wish for, because you just might get it, and along with "it" comes more advanced business practices, because the Mom & Pop thing just doesn't work anymore. So, besides working on the bench, I am also part of the support staff, parts manager, general manager, tech assistant & trainer, etc., ad nauseum, so I am REAL cranky!!!

[clydey]

i have been slowly setting up workshop for the past few months gathering tools info etc the odd repair.
set up with a local guitar shop that unfortunatly for me has a fellow with limited knowledge come in once a week and has first go so i dont see myself lasting there.
anyway they ask me to look at a line 6 spider iii amp that has been looked at by 3 other people no thanks.
scanning e-bay they have it for sale for £20 ill take it - curiosity
no sound, speaker ok, output chip ok, no leds no input signal getting through
a real piece of chinese smt technology JUNK
line 6 does not supply schematics which would not help even if they did
line 6 do not supply tech info or parts
now remembering that as a guitarist that bought into line6 with the x3 live with its audio drop out problem and more recently their m13 with the up till now unsolveable intermittent reset problem i have already resigned myself to stay away from line 6
but the problem i am now asking myself is do i want to stay in repairs and become cranky or get out now
i dont want a workshop full of unrepairable chinese JUNK and frightened to answer the phone so what other brands are in this category and is my questioning correct
cheers

[Enzo]

As John rightly points out, there are places my old country repair shop approach is not appropriate. The idea was that if you need some sort of notice, there are simple ways to put it on the paperwork.

Clydey, do you think that SMT stuff would be easier to work on if it were made in Germany? Or the USA? And there is nothing wrong with telling customers you don;t service certain brands or models.

[jrfrond]

As John rightly points out, there are places my old country repair shop approach is not appropriate. The idea was that if you need some sort of notice, there are simple ways to put it on the paperwork.

I actually LIKE the small-shop approach and feel. Unfortunately, past a certain level, it just doesn't work. In addition, teaching old techs new tricks can be aggravating. I've got techs who STILL refuse to learn how to use all of our database features.

Clydey, do you think that SMT stuff would be easier to work on if it were made in Germany? Or the USA? And there is nothing wrong with telling customers you don;t service certain brands or models.

SMT is SMT. Learn to rework one brand, you learn them all. It's NOT an option any longer. Far too many manufacturers have gone this route, and you'll need to learn the techniques to stay afloat.

I have two words for techs who need to do SMT work: CHIP-QUIK. Google it.

[Enzo]

Chip Quik works, I use it.

For a small shop, one has to balance the need for newer technology repair equipment with the relative demand for it. In other words if I need to spend $500 for a hot air rework machine, it is hard to justify it when I need it three times a year. You have to decide when to jump in. A tool like Chip Quik helps bridge that gap.

As much as I hate SMT, it is not going to go away. But geez, the resistors are about the same size as flecks of pepper I shake on my dinner. Say, there's an idea, an SMT grinder. Hold it over the pc board and...


The remark about not working on certain brands was directed more at companies that do not make support available rather than at SMT. I am not excited to see a Line 6 anything at my door.

[clydey]

yes i understand about smt it was one of the reasons i left electronics a few years ago because of the high price of the rework equipment when all i had was a weller desoldering station. (now using a pace mbt301)ok chi-quik will get them off but i feel like with the line6 i am working with budget manufactured toys.
for example the small postage stamp board that holds the output chip has been cut off the small main board as an afterthought and screwed to the chassis as a heat sink. so using chip-quik ive got a method of removing the smt now i have to find a working amp to rob the good smt from and do a process of elimination and hoping its not one or more of the pepper sized resistors and if i dont resolve the problem ive now got 2 line6 amps in the workshop and they might breed like rabbits.
smt does not scare me but i am evaluating if in budget amp work it is a fair return for the effort.
i dont imagine a line 6 tech (could b wrong) sitting down and repairing this board- it would be a board swop and off to the bin with the old one.
has any of the techs actually repaired one where the fault was not dry joints or replacement of the outputs or something obvious.
i am looking at the size of the smt in comparison to say a marshall valvestate
where you can use your logic and analogue skills but in the line6 case taking a test voltage without shorting 2 pins takes nerves of steel.
i approach the repair as a business and not as a hobby but if all i had to repair was this type i would be out of business in a couple of weeks.
my primary business is in electrical test and install for example
mrs smith buys a new kitchen the installer tells her she cannot by law get the electrical rework done until her consumer board is up to date,bonding done and certs issued. i arrive or whoever else and either change the board
or add a pup do the bonding and redo her wiring in the kitchen and issue certs
at no time do i think - i dont know if this is ever going to work i know it will
job done mrs smith goes to the bank gets the money and pays me.
what i am saying is i have acted professionally in my work.
now with this amp it just feels like i am taking an old alarm clock apart for the first time that has the innards acting as if they are in colditzs and just waiting for this moment to escape and after they do escape the old lady just happens to phone and tell you she is in the area and is coming to pick it up.
i know there is no shame in not accepting certain brands but what brands are the techs not accepting and why
cheers

[Enzo]

In my case, I do not take in Line6 simply because I can get no schematics or other support from them. I certainly work on Marshall gear, but I no longer take in MF350 (Mode4) amps. I can;t hand them over repaired with any confidence they won;t blow up next week. SO I won;t put my name on one.

I won't work on old Moog stuff - it is all analog and extremely sensitive to part values and such. It is not enough to have it making sounds, they need to be stable, reliable, and consistent. The old Moogs relied on things like matched transistors and precision resistors in odd values. I still work on other old synths, but I have not laid eyes on an Oberheim in years. But I had a DX7 though here a couple months ago.

I don;t take in Fender Rhodes pianos. ANyone who plays one ought to know how to maintain it himself - he has to. I do work on the electronic parts - amps and preamps. But not the mechanical stuff. It takes up too much room and I don;t want to stock those parts that can't be used for anything else.

I have a whole bunch of Wurlitzer piano tines. I just inventoried them and wrote to someone who might want to buy them. I don;t want to work on the things any more.

I don;t work on Nady gear other than basic solder stuff - again because no schematics or parts from NAdy.




By the way, that small postage stamp board was broken off the main board in the Line6 because that is how everyone makes boards. Most amps that have small satellite boards, if you look, the little boards for jacks, power modules, whatever were usually once part of the main board. No point in making a bunch of separate boards, they make one board for the whole amp, and perforate it to snap apart. No afterthought, it is part of the design.

Look at the Crate CA60 board in the image. The main board has a snap off upper left whcih becomes the rear jacks panel, there is a smaller snap off under the jack bushings that becomes scrap. The heatsink board also snaps off from the main section and is connected by ribbon.

And check out the board in the Fender, the rear panel jack board snaps off the end of the main board.

[Steve Conner]

Sorry dude, but SMT is here and it's only going to get worse. Enzo might correct me, but I think everyone uses it in their new products, unless you're talking about some reissue tube amp. As an electronic designer, I'm forced to use the stuff in my products and curse it daily. (Just try getting that Spartan-3 FPGA in a DIP package.)

The Line 6 manufacturing quality is typical of every new product that the average musician is willing to pay for.

You should probably stick to the electrical installation work. It's easier, and the profit margins are bigger because you don't have to compete with the Chinese. Mrs. Smith's new consumer unit has to be installed in her house, not a house somewhere in China.

As opposed to electronics repair, where you're always competing against the alternative of throwing the unit away and buying a fresh piece of Chinese junk.

[jrfrond]

Chip Quik works, I use it.

For a small shop, one has to balance the need for newer technology repair equipment with the relative demand for it. In other words if I need to spend $500 for a hot air rework machine, it is hard to justify it when I need it three times a year. You have to decide when to jump in. A tool like Chip Quik helps bridge that gap.

As much as I hate SMT, it is not going to go away. But geez, the resistors are about the same size as flecks of pepper I shake on my dinner. Say, there's an idea, an SMT grinder. Hold it over the pc board and...


The remark about not working on certain brands was directed more at companies that do not make support available rather than at SMT. I am not excited to see a Line 6 anything at my door.

SMT will not go away. The genie is out of the bottle and that's that. It's cheaper to implement and build, as well as smaller, and THAT is the Holy Trinity of electronic manufacturing right there.

So, we are all going to have to learn to deal with it. We have most of it down pat by now, but our biggest problem is dealing with BGA (Ball-Grid Array) chips. There are no pins, just small, round pads on the bottom that mate to the PCB via tiny solder balls that need to be reflowed, and you cannot see your work after it is done. To do it RIGHT requires a specialized, pricey machine. We have invested a total of about $4000 dollars or so for equipment necessary for everyday SMD rework (stereo microscope, two rework machines), but BGA stuff happens once every couple of weeks, and doesn't warranty the multi-$K investment. So, the boards (usually Digidesign) get shipped back to the mfr. for rework.

Hey Doug, we don't use the Chip-Quik stuff anymore, but rather an identical Low-Melt solder from a company called ZephyrTronics (the flux comes from ANOTHER company called Howard Instruments). Same tin/bismuth alloy, just cheaper. We use a lot of it and I had to source something less expensive as a result. It also works well for recalcitrant through-hole components in double-sided PCB's.

We turn down very little here, because somehow or other, we can wind up repairing it. Money is green no matter what, and we need a lot of it for the monthly nut. So the "crazy" stuff that many shops won't touch anymore is still on our list. Sure, it makes me REALLY cranky when I have to hunt down replacement parts in Hong Kong, but I'll do whatever it takes. All I can say is "Thank God for the internet"!

[Enzo]

Steve is right, it is everywhere, that SMT. There is plenty of stuff that isn;t SMT too of course. IN a power amp for example, the main powr amp parts will all be through-hole, but the input and conditioning circuits might now all be SMT on the back of the board.

[jrfrond]

Steve is right, it is everywhere, that SMT. There is plenty of stuff that isn;t SMT too of course. IN a power amp for example, the main powr amp parts will all be through-hole, but the input and conditioning circuits might now all be SMT on the back of the board.

Remember the Crown CE1K & 2K, with disposable SMT circuit boards?

[Enzo]

Or the various QSC models with the little power stepping SMT controller boards?