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Poppin' Capacitors

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  • Poppin' Capacitors

    I'm just posting this for entertainment, but it's been like an extended Fourth of July in the shop.

    I'm working on a 1968 Vox Super Continental Combo Organ for a client, and it happens to be one of the models made in Italy and full of Ducati brand electrolytic capacitors.

    At one point, the client had come by to check on the progress of repairs, and while we were standing in front of it, a bang came from the organ so loud that it made us both jump back. The odd thing was that the organ was turned off at the time. I'm assuming heat/pressure had built up while it was on and finally breached the end seal at that moment.

    So, I rebuilt the power supply.

    Two days ago, I was working on the "walking bass" circuit, and another loud pop issued from the organ. This time, it was a Ducati electrolytic on the bass board. It blew the end seal out like a cork from a champagne bottle. At this point, I contacted my client and said, "I think we need to replace all of these." He agreed.

    The only really interesting part is that these capacitors showed no signs of impending failure before they blew. The axials seem to be the worst. So if you ever see any gold or blue-jacketed Ducati electrolytic capacitors, toss and replace. I think Ducati and the other Italian capacitor manufacturer of that era, Facon, may be tied for last place in terms of long-term reliability.

    Because I've had an American-made Vox Continental for 20 years, I thought I knew what we'd be in for with this repair, but though the units made in Italy use many of the same circuits and sound virtually identical, repairing them is a completely different experience.

    David

  • #2
    Well, 1968 gives me "42" years , not 20.
    It's also a *big* difference whether that organ (or any other piece of equipment) was plugged in, at least sometimes, along those long years, or not.
    The electrolytic solutions will chemically eat through the foil, that's whay it's advisable to carefully reform them, which takes time ... unless you want to add to 4th of July fireworks !!
    Juan Manuel Fahey

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    • #3
      I've owned an American-made (1966) Vox organ for twenty years; I didn't say I bought it new :-) I'm not quite sure what the point is of trying to insinuate that I can't do basic math. In fact, it still has its original Sprague electrolytic power supply capacitors. I can't find anything wrong with them with any of my test equipment.

      And I know, as I presume 98% of the people in this forum do, that it's best to reform capacitors by slowly increasing voltage insofar as it's practical to do so, especially if you have no idea when a particular piece of equipment was last turned on. I'd also estimate that probably > 99% of the general public will just plug something in and turn it on to see if it works. By the time it goes in for professional repair, most of the damage has already been done. Even when I've told people over and over again "Don't just plug it in and switch it on to see if it works!", they still do it. This organ had another Ducati capacitor on the vibrato board that had obviously blown/leaked a long before it ever came into my shop. The current owner had made a detailed list of what was wrong with the organ, and he didn't do that without turning it on.

      What can you do? I guess we could mount a "Don't just switch it on!" campaign ;-) I'm all for it. Let's make refrigerator magnets.

      David

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      • #4
        Hi David, *never* meant to say you don't know math, far from it.
        If you guessed that out of what I wrote, I'm very sorry and fully apologize.
        What I said and repeat now is that a 42 YO electrolytic is a ticking time bomb, *specially* if allowed to "unform" .
        And "reforming" does not always work, it's chancy at its best.
        As for that Sprague capacitor, for me, it simply has a longer fuse, but definitely I won't trust it .
        As a side note, recently I checked one of my oldest still working amps, a 200W into 2 ohms power amp I built in 1971 or 1972.
        Its "Made in Brazil" Siemens capacitors, including two "Coke can" 5000x50V ones, are still happily filtering its ripple, with no bulgings or leaks ..... but they have been in use at least every Saturday and Sunday at a Church for the last 38 years.
        Not much cholesterol in their veins or fat in their bellies !!!
        On the contrary, a couple "Computer Type" *huge* can Mallory and Sprague electrolytics of about the same vintage, which I found, unused, in the bottom of a random parts box, have been leaking for a long time now.
        I guess "working out" *is* good, after all.
        Good luck and I repeat, no disrespect intended.
        Juan Manuel Fahey

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        • #5
          J.M.,

          No problem. The balance I have to strike in repairing these combo organs is one between doing everything I would do if it were my own and keeping repair costs within reasonable limits for the client, and it's often not an easy thing to do. Unless they're dedicated collectors, people don't usually want to pay more than the organ's market value to have it fixed. In this case, I've been focused on getting all tones working reliably, which is far harder on this Italian model than on my California Vox. (Thomas Organ made these under license, and, in my opinion, made some significant improvements to the tone generator circuits.) I also have a Farfisa Compact Duo, and I'm gradually replacing all the electrolytics in it. Each tone has a 1uF cap at its output, and these tend to develop high ESR to the point of going completely open.

          I can't recall now if I brought my Continental up to working voltage with a Variac, but, over the years I've owned it, I've made sure it's turned on for a few hours every few months even during periods when I wasn't using it. Regular, periodic use seems to be the best.

          But I don't know how many times I've had someone contact me who's just bought some piece of musical gear from a garage or basement where it's been sitting unused for years. The story is usually, "I plugged it in, and it worked for a few minutes, then blew a fuse." And I think, "Yes, that's what happens."

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          • #6
            Yea, the problem is they say "I paid "X"$ for it ... HOW MUCH do you say you want to fix it?"
            As Enzo said: "You have no obligation to repair everything that comes through your door" or something like that.
            Juan Manuel Fahey

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            • #7
              I have a whitehall Grand Prix with ducati parts and im dying for information. I know its a little bit random but please if you know anything let me know. I bought a Whitehall Grand Prix For thirty bucks. The fuse and Cap was gone and the Power cord was Cut. I hooked up a Polarized two prong cord with the larger prong as a the negative or uncharged. I put a 2 amp 250 watt fuse and used a different fuse cap to finish the connection. I don't know the average fuse size amp or volts, and I don't know if i need a certain gauge wire or volts coming in. I used the cord from a old lamp. Please, If you can tell me anything about this organ and what i can do to get it to turn on, respond. It didn't turn on when I hit the switch. Any suggestions?

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              • #8
                Sorry andrewdodds but I think it's *very* dangerous for you to be messing with power circuits with your actual knowledge of electrics/electronics.
                Please refer that organ to a Technician which has experience on organs and such.
                You won't find many, by the way, and be prepared to spend way over those those 30$ you paid for it.
                Please be safe, first and foremost.
                Line power KILLS
                Juan Manuel Fahey

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                • #9
                  I got it working today. It completely works. The organ tech and tube amp repair in Eugene has 9 combo organs that he is working on and didn't want to start another one. The origin of Whitehall is pretty hard to figure out but it has Ducati capacitors, and the transformer has "crb" marked on it like CRB Elettronica organs. Combo Organ Heaven: CRB The next thing I want to figure out is, what kind of cord and dock it needs. I don't want to solder the cord in permanently. I don't know if this was the default kind of jack and plug looks like http://www.combo-organ.com/Vox/Jaguar/Earlyjagc.jpg

                  Anyone with a Whitehall or experience please let me know, or send pictures of the back.

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                  • #10
                    I would love to have a .22 uf or .01 uf for my 67 Wha pedal If you still have the old dead caps I would make a fake one just to put in it.

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