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Wanted help with learning amp repair

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  • #16
    Would like to add something from a different, wider point of view.
    Not diminishing or over-rating one group of things over the other, each one is unique, but there is *one* fundamental difference:
    "classic" musical instruments are in general a "mature" technology.
    Most have reached a peak in their development a long time ago, and have not changed *that* much from that stage.
    I mean a saxophone, a violin, a flute, etc. have been basically the way they are today for dozens, even a couple hundred years !!
    There are some changes, as, say, adhesives, some finishes, maybe some tasks are made using power tools instead of hand tools, but the instrument itself has not changed that much.
    With a magical time machine you could bring today a Spanish classical guitar Luthier from 1890, or a Czech cello maker from 1912 , let them loose in your shop and they could probably do excellent repair work.
    Maybe they would be heating hide glue in a stove instead of some cyanoacrilate, or lacquering instruments with rubbing alcohol and some real organic tree resin instead of polyurethane or sanding by hand, but their work would be valid (even more than that, they could charge a fortune by doing it "the old way")
    *BUT* you could bring the most skilled technician in the World, from as close as 1985 (when most of us were already active), somebody who could fix *anything* in that year, and today he would fix, say, 70% of the stuff, but would be lost with, as an example, and in no particular order:
    >>MosFets, widely used today but different from the bipolars with which he would be acquainted.
    >>Chipamps instead of discrete output stages
    >> SMT components instead of through hole parts
    >> Massive presence of Digital effects and processing, and that with dedicated large scale integrated circuits instead of the general purpose CMOS or even TTL ones he would know.
    >> Lack of backup from the Manufacturers, even from serious companies such as Fender or Peavey, who would now offer whole amp or at least board exchange instead of part by part troubleshooting and repair
    >> market domination by mysterious OEM manufacturers, who can't even be found and which if so, speak a *very* different language (think character based ones instead of Roman letters)
    >> programmed obsolescence, which renders many products impossible to repair, from a cost point of view, coupled to
    >> very low manufacturing cost, which makes straight replacement attractive.
    May I say ?:
    Oh well !!
    Anyway, I'm sure somebody with your skills and dedication will probably be able to repair, say, 70% of repairable stuff thrown at you in, say, 1 or 2 years, so I am not discouraging you, on the contrary, just providing a sobering point of view.
    Good luck.
    Juan Manuel Fahey

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    • #17
      Hence the need to find someone capable or get someone trained to stop the self collapse of the industry.

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      • #18
        My experiences...

        I'll relay my experiences and thoughts, if it helps. I'm a technician by education/training, but not specifically in amp/music repairs. However, playing guitar is what got me interested in electronics as a teenager (too poor to pay somebody to do mods/repairs). I teach high school electronics now, and the local music shop owner (friend and former bandmate) asked me if I was interested in doing contract-labor repairs. Of course, there's a learning curve, and I'm not extremely fast (learning curve, and I like to make sure everything is up-to-snuff). Some repairs I can do in less than an hour, some might take a few days for me to get my head straight and find everything (assuming no long lead-time on parts) and work into my schedule. I've had a couple that took me a couple of weeks because of my schedule and waiting for parts. Because I still consider myself a "fledgeling" music tech, I don't charge by my actual time, but based on what I think the repair is worth (and what the customer is willing to have done). If I spend 3 hours on something, but I believe a veteran could do it in 1, I only charge for 1 and chalk the rest up to "educational expense".

        I guess the point I'm trying to make, is find someone with good general-purpose electronics background with a musical inclination. Try to get them to work as self-employed contract labor. Check with your local vocational schools and community colleges. The instructors may be interested, or know somebody they can point you to. Going with contract labor frees you from tax/payroll/accounting burdens. The downside is, you both have to work with the customer to make sure they have realistic expectations of the turn-around time. I've had a few customers gripe about taking 3 days to do a repair, then they wait 2 weeks to come in and pick it up. If they think they are getting a good quality repair at a fair price, they would probably be okay with the turnaround.

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        • #19
          Have you advertised on local aussie forums? I have this one bookmarked for aussie amp builders.
          There may be someone that could help you, might be worthwhile looking at offering a business partnership with someone. They bring the skill you bring the finance... etc.

          Aussie made Amplifiers

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          • #20
            Yep, I ran an add on that forum 25 feb this year, nothing

            Looking for someone to do some part time amp repairs in Perth NOR

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            • #21
              Simso, I really do applaud your desire to get almost instant repair, but you keep using terms like "collapse of the industry" simply because it takes three weeks for a repair. It may not be your expectation, but it is not unusual, and certainly does not mean the imminent collapse of the repair industry.

              I think about the rest of my life and I find:

              If I call my dentist for an appointment, it will be way more than three weeks until one is available, but my dentist is not going out of business.

              I called a specialist doctor for a screening for a certain condition I may have. Eight weeks before I could come in.

              My family doctor, likewise books visits a month or more in advance.

              When I take my car to a body shop for repair, I don't get it back the next day.

              Took the car dealer 3 days recently to get in a part and repair my wife's car. Since they were providing a new car from the lot as a loaner, I doubt they were stalling.

              And so on.
              Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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              • #22
                Interesting analogyu, In my area 2000 square kms theres about 1100 dentists, 1800 plus doctors, 1600 car repair shops, 300 new car dealerships, two amp repairers both who cannot keep on top of the work, with the repair (electronics) industry in dismay becuase we have become a throw away society and nothing gets repaired, so I think it wasnt a far fetched statement the industry is in collapse. Did you want a job

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                • #23
                  No sir, I have a job, I own and operate a pro-audio repair facility.
                  Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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                  • #24
                    Man if you would accept the advice that has been offered to you instead of insisting on applying principles from your own quite different repair field, and going on to imply that those advising you are wrong, have poor work ethics, are in a collapsing industry etc, you might have a hope of understanding the situation you are trying to get into.

                    This industry is not in collapse, it is a niche market with healthy but limited demand and a distinctly limited supply of skills. Because those skills take years to develop, there is little prospect of the supply of skilled workers improving all that quickly, but I guess one day it might, and then we would pretty soon have an oversupply because it is after all a very small niche market. Add one new repairer to a large area and you would transform the supply/demand situation because it is such a small niche. Repairs would however still quite often take three weeks to turn around, for reasons that have been explained to you in detail.

                    One other thing - if you spoke to me as a repairer the way you have written on this thread, I wouldn't dream of working for you.

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                    • #25
                      In my area 2000 square kms theres about 1100 dentists, 1800 plus doctors, 1600 car repair shops, 300 new car dealerships, two amp repairers
                      Excellent data, you are showing clearly that there is infinitely far more demand for people, tooth or car repairers than for electronics repairers.
                      I would also like to add that beyond the amount of "repair jobs" these guys get, there's also the *huge* difference in what's considered an "acceptable" bill.
                      I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina.
                      Prices I quote "should" be divided by 4 to turn them in US dollars, although for a fair comparison they should not, because we pay but also earn in Argentine Pesos.
                      The impact on our living expenses then evens out.
                      The Doctor who operated my Mother (unsuccessfully I might sadly add) in April charged $25000 for himself, (we are talking a 9 hour operation, just do the math), total operation costs including Intensive Care were $90000.
                      My Dentist wants $ 3200 for every new implant+ceramic/metal tooth.
                      My Car Mechanic never charges less than $200 to $500 for even light work; pulling the car engine for heavy work easily runs from $2000 to $5000.
                      If I want to charge $500 for a new output transformer plus retubing for a guy who forgot to plug his cabinet, and replaced his fuse with rolled-up cigarette paper, he calls me a thief.
                      He will probably visit a shop with his trusty credit card and "make the first payment in September" .... "0% interest", on a new amp, and as a side effect calm his GAS a little.
                      No wonder people prefers to become Doctor, Dentist, or even Car Mechanic.
                      If there are not a lot more of the first two ones, it's because University is both difficult and *very* expensive, plus it takes many uninterrupted years studying before you are allowed to do *anything*, which does not happen on other, unregulated , repair activities.
                      I think most of us who are in this job, do so more out of personal preference than economic reward .
                      Juan Manuel Fahey

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                      • #26
                        Simso,
                        Are you still looking?
                        If you wish - PM me to get a direct email contact.
                        I am an electronic design engineer in the day job (Technology Park, South Australia) - I celebrated paying off my mortgage and my 55 B'day by going to a 4 day week. That gives me a little more time for my hobby work which is design, build, restoration, repair of tube audio gear, both HiFi and Guitar Amps. I'm currently working (slowly) toward setting up small volume manufacturing of one of my HiFi Tube Amp designs.

                        I'm a fair distance away (but at least in the same country) may be able to help occassionally particularly for any "special" jobs. For example, I just finished a full restoration of a 1963 Vox AC30 for a guy. He was absolutely "wrapped" with the result. He had apparantly owned this thing for 20 years and despite 3 trips to 3 different amp techs over the years this is the first time in that 20 years that everything on it works (an early repair had introduced a couple of wiring errors). I also recently completed a build of a guitar amp for a guy who "wanted the best - money no object". He got "mates rates" (I put A$2200 in parts into the thing including power scaling, carefully selected NOS tubes, tube driven reverb, Weber P12B Speaker in hand crafted box etc. and charged him A$2800 which probably worked out at <$5/hr for the labour). I'm in a position to "Cherry Pick" the jobs I take on and won't take on a job where "it must be back this weekend". Also I'm not cheap, you get a full report with schematics which I trace by hand if I can't find it on the web, every tube goes thru' the tube tester and get replaced if it measures <70% new specification and I like to give a warranty which means that I don't do "bare minimum" just to get it going jobs. In short - I may be able to help occassionally depending on what jobs I currently have in hand.

                        If you are prepared to freight stuff to South Austalia there are 3 techs listed here:
                        http://www.ozvalveamps.org/valvetechs.htm

                        I have met Andrew Neale and he seems very knowledgable. I haven't met the other 2 guys but both have been around for many years and so are probably competent.
                        Might be worth contacting one of them if you need extra help.

                        There is another guy who used to be on that list but seems to have been deleted, probably just as well since I did know him and I would'nt send my worst enemy's dog to him (as we say in the Oz Vernacular).

                        This may not be of any help to you but at least it gives you option(s).

                        Cheers,
                        Ian

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