60 Hz line frequency may get looser in the future?

[g1]

According to this article there may be some experimenting (for a year) with the North American 60Hz line frequency.
AP EXCLUSIVE: Power grid change may disrupt clocks - Yahoo! News
Depending on what kind of electronics/electrical you are dealing with you may be more or less affected.
Also, I found quite interesting the statement "In the future, more use of renewable energy from the sun and wind will mean more variations in frequency on the grid". Apparently keeping it within current tolerance will be too expensive.

[jrfrond]

Introducing some AC line frequency instability, which is how the article reads, should not be an issue with the bulk of North American power consumption. The only devices affected would be those with AC synchronous motors, and possibly a few gadgets that derive their clock from line frequency, which are few and far in between. AC-powered tools really won't be affected, nor will AC applicance motors. In other words, most critical and even minor applications will not be affected.

If the drift is large, there may be some sporadic issues with certain power supply designs, but they are just talking about loosening-up the specs, not going to 50Hz.

[J M Fahey]

20 minutes per year means 20/(60x24x365)=20/525600=0.000038=0.0038%.
Absolutely irrelevant, specially for motors, compressors, even your old VCR would be off by 3.28 seconds if you set it to record tomorrow's favorite TV show (same time as today).
Hardly worth a catastrophe treatment by the Press .... or is it?

[g1]

I realize most of the effects are minimal but am trying to look at the big picture. Reading through the comments on the article there are some interesting points (conspiracy theories?) made, such as the implication they want to lower the frequency to reduce generation costs (coal etc.) or accommodate wind/solar etc. If the goal really is to lower the frequency then borderline PT's will just be too small. Also the issue of harmonics filtering may be a concern.
I was surprised to read about the difference say from west to east coast. I thought everything had to be well synched. A friend that works for power utility was telling me how critical phasing and frequency was for power export.
For myself I am more concerned about where our line voltage is going rather than the frequency. Is 126V a hard limit or will they keep going up? Why are they still building PT's for 118V? (or 115V as I have seen some PT's from China marked).

[J M Fahey]

I think not only the frequency will not be touched, there's even a tighter spec to be met.
If different generators want to share the load interconnected to a common power grid, *phase* must be tightly controlled, compared to which frequency is but a small byproduct.
Now on gradually rising voltages, I see it everyday in Brazil, which traditionally mimics USA .
In this particular case it might be a testbed.
They are switching from relatively inefficient centertapped 2x110V (nominal), which in every home provides 2 110V lines plus esily available 220V for heavy appliances, to more efficient 3x220V triphasic which by the way provides 127V phase-to-ground/neutral.
So I guess your measured 126V are not a mistake by any chance.
I also guess that the gradual creeping up: 110->113->115->117->120V was not casual, it's just making the switch to 127V painless, sort of.
In Brazil, the difference is important enough as to make step-down transformers (127->110) a necessity for old tube amps and similar dated equipment.
Ovens, hair dryers, fridges, etc. work, sort of.
"Universal" 120/240 switchable amplifiers are close enough as to work without problems.
Anyway, I usually measure actual 118/119V on most of São Paulo's electrical outlets, while on its close (30 miles) Santos oceanic port, they have perfect 220V, because the Power Utility is much newer.
It's chaotic (and dangerous) what they do, having "110" on certain parts of the city and "220" just a few blocks away, but it happens.
A very common Musicians complaint is going from Studio/home (110) to some not far away 220V powered Club, and burning some amps.
Oh well. Think(hope) it won't happen in USA.

[diagrammatiks]

power regulation could and should happen within the device anyway.

50 cent op amp will smooth that right out.

[g1]

power regulation could and should happen within the device anyway.

50 cent op amp will smooth that right out.

A 50cent op amp will keep the line frequency at 60hz? Or compensate for higher line voltage? I have some old radios from the 30's and 40's that need 110Volts so they can't be used with our 125V. I am very interested in how I can correct this with 50 cent op amp. Please provide schematic.
http://music-electronics-forum.com/i...ilies/wink.png

[diagrammatiks]

sure. just add it after your new transformer to regulate the voltage back to where it should be.

[J M Fahey]

I also would love to see that schematic.

[diagrammatiks]

page 361 of morgan jone's building valve amps

[Enzo]

Um, that 50 cent op amp better have a supporting circuit around it to do all that or it will become a cinder pretty quick.

When we talk of alternative energy sources and home generation feeding power back into the grid, you have to keep in mind that the grid is the whole electrical system working together. The local part of the grid doesn't switch from the coal plant down by the river over to the windmill on the local farmer's lot. The farmer's power and the coal plan't's power are all driving the same grid. If the windmill wants to feed the grid, it sure had better be in sync with the rest of the grid before it ties on. Otherwise there will be contention betwen its output and that of the rest of the grid. High fault currents will flow.


COnspiracies are so often based upon ignorance. SLowing the frequency from 60Hz to a couple Hz lower is not going to save them anything.

[Enzo]

AH simulpost...

Does Mr Jones circuit actually correct mains voltage?

[Bill Moore]

I worked for a power company in the 80's, and the problem had always been tying the east, and west coast grids together. Seems Mr Einstein's ideas of time, and distance are relevant! The company I worked spent some money with a partner to build a east, west buss on the eastern side of New Mexico. Their idea was not to try to align the phases, (others had tried, and burned down miles of line), they converted the power to DC, and then back to AC. It worked fine, the company sold the project for a profit, and now we have links all over the country tying grids together. Seems this alternative energy could do something similar to maintain the correct frequency.
I really wish we would get a 3 phase home connection, although it would cost a fortune, it is the cheapest way to run a motor, heat pumps would be reasonable to operate! Here in the US, our standard 3 wire 3 phase is 208, and 480 volts. The 208 delivers 120 phase to ground, and the 480 (think large commercial) delivers 277. Here at the shop I have 2 wire 3 phase, (I think it's called delta-wye that delivers 230 volt, with 2 legs delivering 120 phase to ground, or 240 single phase to phase. The downside is the other, (wild) leg, which floats in reference to ground. I have measured 180 volts at times!

[clintronics]

Flywheels Keep the Grid in Tune - IEEE Spectrum

[J M Fahey]

page 361 of morgan jone's building valve amps

Sorry but I click your link and nothing appears. So maybe it's not a link after all.
I'd also hate to buy that book at Amazon or wherever just to look at page 361.
Would you be so kind as to scan and post said schematic?
Or link to a clickable page that shows it.
Including page text relevant to it would also be very useful.
Thanks a lot.