Replacement speaker question

[erjent]

Hi All,
I have a Crate Palomino V50 212. It has two Celestion 70/80 8 ohm speakers in series. These are rated at 80 watts each. When looking at better replacement speakers such as the Celestion Alnico Blue or Greenback, they seem to be rated lower than 50 watts. The Blue is rated at 15 watts and the Greenback 30 watts. Is it possible or advisable to use speakers that are rated less than the amps maximum output?
Thanks,
erjent

[Enzo]

What does the amp put out, 50 watts? When driving two speakers, that 50 watts will divide between them, 25 watts per speaker.

You can use a speaker that will not withstand the ful power of an amplifier as long as you have the discipline not to turn it up to where it destroys the speaker.

[tube power]

I have had a couple of the Made In U.S.A. versions of those amps.
They sound great and are probably at least 50.
They sure sound even more powerful.
Might want to go with two 30's.

[km6xz]

Is there a problem with the old drivers? Replacements will sound a little different but depending on the traits you want to change in your sound, they might be an improvement or an expensive waste of money by going backwards and being worse. Can you identify what characteristic, specifically, that you want to change and in what way?
As with any system where all the components interact in complex ways to produce a whole, there is no free lunch. When modding an amp/speaker changing one element does not create only desired results, but it can be preferred if the change emphasizes traits you value more than the ones the get worse. "I just want it to sound better" is NOT a realistic request to start with. If you do not like something, some trait of the sound, you need to identify the things that create the trait and balance what traits you are willing to loose to gain in that identified trait.
Don't believe all the internet hype about magic drivers, tubes, transformers that only have positive changes. Besides, you are not hearing what traits the person promoting a brand of tube or transformer was seeking and what they were willing to give up to get it, besides a bucket full of money. Magic $500 output transformers do not make all things in an amp better, in fact the more esoteric the component the more likely the fundamentals have been worsened. Few of the high-end components have had 1/10 of the engineering expertise invested as some pretty ordinary off the shelf parts. For example it is pretty hard to justify replacing a perfectly good stock Hammond transformer with a golden ears $500 model when the Hammond is technically, from an engineering perspective, better thought out and executed. Same with tubes. No current $150 a pair audiophile 6l6's are built with as much expertise as a run of the mill consumer grade RCA when it was made despite the 50:1 price difference. Swapping a stock part out with an esoteric part Might help in what you want but it probably won't because the one design feature and intent of the high-end part might not be related to your perceived problem.
One problem with even figuring out if a problem has been solved is the long time period between listening to the two versions, before and after. Humans have very short memory of sound characteristics. We remember what impressions we had, but not the sound, for more than 1 second or two. That is why proper listening tests are done in very controlled conditions and switching between samples very rapidly, and without having any clues as to which is which or even if there is a different unit being switched. If you are going to do tests, record the output of your guitar with no effects or amplifier, just directly from guitar to recorder accounting for load impedance requirements for the guitar, and use that as the source fed into both amps under test, with both amps in a free field, and aligned vertically. When taking the listener out of the loop, with no ability to influence the results, differences in cables, tubes, transformers turn out to be much closer to random.
Sometimes the source of the dissatisfaction is much closer to home than some electronic issue, for example, placement of the cabinet in the room will have more difference in tone character than any single component swap. Strings, string height and listening position all swamp basic electronic component influences on perceived sound. What sounds good to you, close to the cabinet and what sounds good to the audience is ALWAYS different because you both are in difference acoustic environments. I've noticed that different types of musicians play for different audiences. For example jazz players often, on stage, play with the audience in mind more than himself, and the locations and orientations of instruments are geared to being acoustically balanced 20-30 feet away but very unbalanced to each musician. Rock musicians often require very high level monitors which almost always reduce the quality to the audience. There is a difference in who the music is for, and who gets the benefit of optimized sound. Same with a symphony orchestra, imagine what the concert sounds like to the middle violinists compared to the audience in the 13th row. This is just to illustrate the importance of listening position and environment to perceived sound. Who is the audience and what do they hear and in what environment? What you do not like when noodling around in your bedroom might be what makes your music interesting to the audience in a large club. You and your audience are hearing very different sounds.

[tube power]

km6xz makes some good points.
It reminds me of a few examples.

Jim Marshall candidly revealed that he designed his legendary 4x12 cab based on the
very scientific formula of "how can we get the most cabs out of these 4x8 sheets of plywood?"


And Hartley Peavey's famous blindfolded amp comparison experiment with a bunch of Nashville tone aficionados and
an assortment of boutique tube amps vs. his Transtube Bandit. (Guess which one none of them picked as the solid state amp.)


I forget his name, but a very famous producer conducted a very similar experiment with a high dollar pro near field monitor and a modestly priced one.
As he a/b compared the two he would switch the placement of the speakers. Each time he switched the better speaker to a bad spot in the room
the subjects picked it as the "lower quality" speaker. And conversely, they picked the bargain brand as the better speaker!



Perception is often fostered by cunning marketers.
However, in the case of the 70/80, I found the bottom to be flabby no matter where I placed the cab.
Still a pretty good speaker otherwise.
Eminence "Texas Heat" speakers had a tighter bass response to my ears.
And I did a/b them (I had two of the amps at the same time) all over the room.
That was a nice replacement for the Palomino.
Unless you're into flabby bottom, hey, to each his own