Changes

[km6xz]

My general rule is not to tear apart test gear, sort of like a mechanic with his tools or a hairstylist with her scissors, they are the core of their craft even if one unit is not needed, in the right hands there is a lot of good that can come from those items.
It is a shame to take apart test gear, that was TV's stereos, computers, cell phones, iPads and industrial gear is for. The only good a TV really has done is supply parts for young electronics nerds that created something useful from the parts. I say, a bad piece of test gear does more good for the world than the best TV. Same with good quality hand tools.

[imaradiostar]

My general rule is not to tear apart test gear, sort of like a mechanic with his tools or a hairstylist with her scissors, they are the core of their craft even if one unit is not needed, in the right hands there is a lot of good that can come from those items.
It is a shame to take apart test gear, that was TV's stereos, computers, cell phones, iPads and industrial gear is for. The only good a TV really has done is supply parts for young electronics nerds that created something useful from the parts. I say, a bad piece of test gear does more good for the world than the best TV. Same with good quality hand tools.

Oh, I agree. I haven't taken apart anything that's working, especially an RCA bridge. It's a work of art. We just don't have analog TV broadcast here anymore so the sweep generators are, in my modest understanding, obsolete.

jamie

[Enzo]

Well, there still are radios. But when was the last time anyone needed to align an IF stage?

I love old test gear. I still have the Eico VTVM I built 50 some years ago, and the LCR bridge from them as well. I agree that it all has value as is, and it would be a sin to convert some VTVM into a practice amp.

[Techknowman]

Things like that pioneer receiver is worth keeping the knobs and such, which you probably already do.
But if you are going to part with things like that, I would be interested in buying things like knobs switches from those numark Fenders etc.
My repair work is steadily growing and I have been buying equipment from the customers that are not worth the cost of repair. I give then $10-$20 and salvage all kinds of stuff, well I let my son salvage it. If your collection of stuff is half the worth of your experience and intellect, you have a very valuable collection of stock.
You could at least make enough off me to pay for your lunch one or twice a week!

[Enzo]

Oh, the knobs go into the KNOB box. I have all sorts of old knobs. Used to haver TV tuner knobs, but they rarely become useful, the fine tuner knob fits on a large ring that we never see here.

One time a friend brought us his bass guitar for some minor repair. We noticed it had no knobs on it, and were not about to let that go. We found some knobs for a kitchen stove that fit. It was great, these oversized skirt knobs on the Fender bass. Now he can play at high, medium, low, or simmer.

I do have a box of the old fluted bakelite knobs. I see them for stupid prices in ALlied to this day - like $25 each.

A Pioneer receiver power transformer would be great as the start of some solid state amp project.

[J M Fahey]

A Pioneer receiver power transformer would be great as the start of some solid state amp project.

Agree.
If you have a few such transformers, with the added small effort of drawing a simple diagram showing wiring and voltages, please post them at SS Guitar.
Or even EBay, advertised for the same purpose, so it shows up in search.
The guys there are always interested in LM3886m or TDA7294 amp projects, needing 20+20VAC to 25+25VAC PTs. (+/-28VDC to +/-35VDC rails).
It would also help to sweep clean your storage space

[Mars Amp Repair]

Well, after about 7yrs of accumulated stuff it frankly wasn't difficult at all to get rid of most of it. I discovered the recyclers right down the street & now understand why you always see those unfortunate folks in a beat up old pickup full of all kinds of fridges, washers, & lawn chairs.
I stripped all the transformers out of the junk (like the Mackie SRM's & such) we were dumping & got about $100 for them...they would have hit the dumpster otherwise as they were out of solid state p.a. amps that would never get used. So the only good in keeping all those old amps was to recycle the transformers. Btw, I also took a bunch of copper fittings & pipes I had laying around at home & the shop & turned them in and got about $200.00...it really surprised me as there really wasn't that much there, either.
I think if I were to ever do this again, I'd just throw the stuff out as we go & save the trouble later on as we never did use most of that stuff I saved for the reason I saved it...I also found that my techs were usually too lazy to go through that stuff for parts, anyway ;-]

As for old test equipment I agree it is cool to look at, but not really for much else. The newer stuff is so much more reliable and accurate for the price. I’ve seen guys on e-bay bid up some old tube based test equipment and always wonder why…back when I was setting up this business I watched as a bunch of guys bid up these Variacs that looked like they were built back in the 40’s. They were paying over $200.00 for a 5amp variac. I couldn’t see it. When I was first setting up the shop about 7years ago I actually got hung up bidding on this Heathkit audio generator that based on the bidding seemed to be the thing to get & when I actually received it, I realized how the circuitry was basically just old design & not that stable. I guess these guys just remember it being the latest/best back in the day. But if they were to try something newer such as a modern scope, they would see where the older stuff really is only good for looks. I can’t see collecting the broken stuff & just keeping it on a shelf somewhere for years to possibly fix another one…what for?

BTW I did find that the Heathkit generator had a ballast bulb the kept the thing stable that was bad. I noticed it looked just like the bulbs they used to use in the old 60's multi extension phones. I found them on Mouser & ordered a few of different voltages & one worked perfectly. The meter sticks & it's still an older piece of test equipment.

I will say that when you’re outfitting a shop of 5 techs, you can’t afford to have older test equipment that isn’t reliable…I guess if you were the one man operation, you might be more tolerant of aged test equipment.
To each his own I suppose.

[km6xz]

The reason some people like old test gear is that it is easy to maintain, calibrate and some have combinations of features that are not available elsewhere. For example that old IG-5218 which has the best combination of requirements of any signal generator for bench work I've seen, and I am a test geat junky. For example what generator from Aligent, Sound Technology, AP etc, has the combination of high accuracy in frequency, no phase jitter or noise that plagues digital function generators, level step attenuator, meter, low distortion, simultaneous square wave triggering output, low output Z, calibration for volts, dbv and dbm on with 1%, high level output, low cost, all standard parts making it easy to repair if needed?
I have lots of great generators, 3 Sound Technolgy's, H-P/Aligent, AP, and Tektronix yet for bench work the IG-5218 is faster and requires no ancillary gear hooked up to know what the generator is doing. Whenever I see one at a ham swap meet I buy it. They used to go for $25 but eBay has them going for $150 and worth every penny of that. I have never had one fail, rugged, hard to kill etc, all excellent reasons to own them. For tube work, not much is better than the old IM-5218 Heath VTVMs because they can't be killed by drawing an arc from parasitics when probing high Z circuits, and load a UUT much less due to its very high input Z. No DMM can survive that. My meter of choice for tube circuits is a HP410C, which will handle more abuse than any of my many quality digital meters.
So there are lots of reasons why efficient, profitable shops are that way because they have the most appropriate gear for the task and sometimes that is really old gear. In my old shop I had 24 workbenches, all well equipped with Tek, HP, ST and Heath. The 15 techs had access to extra benches so a unit could be left apart while the estimate approval was being sought and other gear could be worked on in the meantime. That gear made the shop the most efficient around so it was a business decision to use what worked best for the task instead of newer but cheaply built digital test gear that just does not stand up to the abuse of being used on defective equipment.

[Mark Hammer]

There's a guy a few blocks over from me at work, who recently celebrated his 90th birthday. ( Hy Bloom ) The guy is an audio legend in the region, and still maintains a storefront/shop and comes into work every day, though he tends to spend much of it sitting near the window, puffing on a stogie and reading. Bit by bit, all the other tube amp guys in the region have been coming to him to absorb what he knows about making amps sound good and last. I've bought a couple of things from him over the years. Apparently the guy is sitting on an open-reel vault of demos and archival recordings that is astounding, including recordings of diplomatic visits andfamous speeches, in addition to musicians. Shortly before his 90th birthday party (well attended by many who admire and love the old guy), I asked him if he ever planned to retire. He replied that he was "too busy to retire", but also confided that many of his age-mate friends had passed on, so he comes to work for the socializing..

[Tom Phillips]

I too have a lot of old test equipment and it has served me well. Maintenance has turned out to be minimal. I'm just doing the first required service on a 1978 Tek 465B scope. So far it's turned out that it just needed internal switch & component contact cleaning. It is tricky detailed work though which is covered in extensive threads elsewhere. The performance and joy of use is worth it to me. Equipment with real analog meter movements are a favorite of mine. I have digital meters too but the analog meter shows trends, signal wiggles and dropouts that just produce useless erratic displays on the digital units. The HP428B clip on current probe is another personal favorite. No need to install current sensing resistors. Just clip around the OT plate wire and read the bias current. Want to know the exact screen current? Just clip onto the screen wire. There is even an output to allow you to monitor the current waveform with a scope. In 2000 I purchased a 428B manufactured in 1969. It had no calibration stickers on it so its history was unknown but checking showed that it was performing to spec. I still have my first piece of test equipment. A Heathkit IM-32 VTVM that my Dad and I built on the kitchen table in the early 1960's.

I'm not saying that everyone should start seeking out old test equipment but thanks for reading this

Cheers,
Tom

[Steve Conner]

I don't know about the superiority of analog meter movements, but someone recently offered me an Avo Model 8 and I couldn't resist it.

I do think analog scopes still have a place. Doesn't matter if the controls are digital, there's just something about an analog CRT display that makes it easier to see relevant detail in imperfect real-world waveforms. I'm currently using a Tek 2465B.

Can the Heath IG-5218 generator be swept quickly over a wide frequency range? Doesn't it have digital decade knobs for frequency that take a lot of fiddling? I think that might get annoying in some situations.

[km6xz]

Yes, it has a decade rotary switch bank, so changing from 100, to 1000 to 1000 is two clicks, faster than sweeping an inaccurate continuously variable frequency control. If real sweep is needed we have sweep generators built into the spectrum analyzers like the HP3580A or I also use a Sound Technology 1510a analyzer with will sweep two channels and plot level, distortion, separation etc on the display. For everyday bench work, by far the most efficient generator I have is the 5218. If I need distortion down below 0,01% than I have the ST 1700B's but for most work, low distortion is not needed.
The 2465b is a great scope, I had one on my spare bench back in California. Now I have my originally purchased 2236 Tek that is lighter weight(is still cost me $3600 in 1984) that is a pretty effective general trouble shooting tool since it has an optional TCXO time base for its counter/voltmeter/resistance measurements from side terminals or the scope channel 1 probe input. The time base it very accurate and stable. One nice thing about its frequency measurements is that very low frequency readings are instantaneous because the display is calculated by waveform period instead of counting. So a 10hz signal does not take 100 seconds for a 6 digit value. The second scope is a 465M workhorse, all original and in great condition. 90% of normal repairs can be done with just that scope and that signal generator. The other 10% requires the precision test gear and analyzers.

[Mars Amp Repair]

yeah I hear ya...the Heathkit audio generator I was referring to was actually that IG-5218 that you referred to...so you must have also found a source for that little ballast bulb in there. It is a nice generator but honestly for most guitar amp type stuff, just about anything will do the job. Most techs leave them set for 1Khz & never move it from there unless checking for rattles...glen

[Tom Phillips]

... checking for rattles...glen

Good point. My main sig gen has a switch bank to set the freq but It's difficult to tune in a cabinet resonance to find the source of a rattle. Even with the built in vernier control it's a real pain. It's just nice to be able to grab a big dial and tune across the band so I've kept other sig gens around for that. It feeds the test equipment freak in me too.
Fun fun fun,
Tom