Cable snake oil?

[soundguruman]

Well Yeah, there are several occasions where I have made special ground lift patch cords for studios and stage systems...
But they don't cost $50 a foot! hahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

There are for sure, applications for special cables. It can make all the difference in the noise floor.
Even in home theater systems, cable TV systems, etc...

So don't get the wrong idea.
You can use special cables, but they don't need to cost an arm and leg.

[Mick Bailey]

Directional cable comes in two types, those sold by con-men to people asking for someone to pick their pockets by citing some magic properties of signals traveling in one direction, as if AC was up for that is the first type.
The second type is found in every studio, remote recording system, broadcast, film location and scoring stage and anyone interested in optimum noise floor, absence of buzz, crackles, hum etc.

It's the first type I'm referring to - just for guitar/amp type connection (so a simple ground lift at one end won't work unless telescopic grounding is used). It's another area for mojo exploitation. Here's a quote from one company I came across from a quick search;

"All cables - yes all cables have signal directionality. By 'directional' I mean that in one direction, the sound is slightly louder, has lower distortion, is a cleaner, smoother, sweeter, and has a deeper bass and overall wider dynamic range. Cable directionality is measurable and quantifiable, if not fully understood."

Can't you hear the difference?

[Chuck H]

"... Cable directionality is measurable and quantifiable..."

That's a hoot! How can they make such claims!!! If they make a statement of fact and it's a lie, as is the case here, they aren't providing their customers with the product they propose to sell. They are TAKING money and NOT providing product. They ARE stealing and should be subject to prosecution! How is this legal?

[Mark Hammer]

...and in conclusion....

Anyone who cites "the professor" is a friend of mine. Remarkable that he is still around and kicking at his age. On the other hand, given his traditional stage shtick, I'm not sure anyone could tell if he was dementing or not!

[Mark Hammer]

There *could* be a difference. Unfortunately that difference was oly audible before the first time you put your Dr. Dre headphones on and cranked it.

[big_teee]

I guess if you play those directional cable in a freezer, you could lock it in with Cryogenics, Maybe?

[Chuck H]

I guess if you play those directional cable in a freezer, you could lock it in with Cryogenics, Maybe?

All right!!! A next level man!

Ok. I'll play along. How about guitar strings that have been tested for their directional properties before the ball end is attached!

OH WAIT!!! I know. Drum up some pseudo science about why the wrap on all the guitar strings being made goes the wrong direction for the best tone. Then patent and market strings wound the other direction!!!

[g1]

Yes, it is measurable and quantifiable, but you dear users, are too stupid to hear the difference, in spite of decades of (mis)use of cables. .
Yes, I suspected all along it wasn't my playing that was off...

[km6xz]

Only if you listen to them while in the freezer

[big_teee]

All right!!! A next level man!

Ok. I'll play along. How about guitar strings that have been tested for their directional properties before the ball end is attached!

OH WAIT!!! I know. Drum up some pseudo science about why the wrap on all the guitar strings being made goes the wrong direction for the best tone. Then patent and market strings wound the other direction!!!

Reverse Wound Strings?
That may actually work for me, because I play Left Handed!
Also would that Aid, and work with RWRP hum canceling Pickups?
T

[Mick Bailey]

Reverse wound strings only hum cancel when used in pairs with regular strings; I suggest you begin with a regular wound low E and a reverse wound A. You should hear the hum reduction immediately on that particular pair. If you don't hear a difference possibly your hearing is impaired, or you don't believe strongly enough. The science behind it isn't fully understood - possibly common-mode rejection has something to do with it. Look out for strings that use mil-spec grain-oriented carbon-iron alloy which has superior properties over steel, and a wrap made from fictionite alloy.

[km6xz]

While a decent cable will not improve the signal, a bad cable can hurt it. I took a look at a small rehearsal hall, with 5 rooms last week. They had brought several amps over because they sounded bad only at high levels in one room. A Marshall JCM 800, a HiWatt 100 and a Bugera. They all checked out OK, nothing wrong on the bench and hardly anything that would have present equally in all 3 amps. So I went over to their place to see if there was something in common. We set up the amps one by one and they demonstrated it. Sure enough they all sounded bad with lower open strings above about 100db spl. They switched guitars, same problem. I had a hunch, and asked them to turn down the level on the guitar while I increased the gain. With no signal from the guitar there was a faint echo sound to my own voice it the room. I kicked the guitar cable and the amp went crazy. The cable was so microphonic that is was picking up ever voice quitely, every foot step loudly and lower strings almost to the point of feedback. I have never hear a cable so bad so I played with it a bit, putting carpet over 1/2 and wiggled and squeezed slightly to see if there was one section, then tried the other half, just about identical sensitivity anywhere on the cable. It was a passable condenser mic, with no HF response. They kept the cable but I wanted to bring it home to test on instruments. It was not old, looked like new, with a fancy neon blue sheath and fake SC plugs with heat shrink over the barrels. It probably took some serious engineering to get a distributed capacitance so high and variable with slight pressure.
Capacitance in cable only made a real difference with guitar amps since it formed the C in a second slope RC filter with output of the guitar all feeding a very high z input of the amp. There is HF attenuation due to high capacitance and higher odds of a microphonic cable adding unpleasant persistent dirt to notes, so get decent dielectric cable. It can clean up an unidentified grunge riding on notes. You can hear it though by shaking the cable with the gain up if it is bad enough to be heard on notes.

[Chuck H]

Also would that Aid, and work with RWRP hum canceling Pickups?
T

It'll actually work better in all circumstances. The wind direction creates an ellipse in the magnetic field that is out of phase with the winding of most speaker coils! Reversing the string wrap corrects this phase anomaly and gives a truer, more natural sound

[Leo_Gnardo]

I have never hear a cable so bad so I played with it a bit, putting carpet over 1/2 and wiggled and squeezed slightly to see if there was one section, then tried the other half, just about identical sensitivity anywhere on the cable. It was a passable condenser mic, with no HF response.

Meanwhile, over in the pickup department, a couple weeks ago some question & commentary about acoustic guitar pickups that fit under the bridge saddle. Used to be just the Highlander 20-25 years ago, now several brands, that make hay using the condenser effect. Turns out the plastic Kynar, which looks like Saran wrap, just thin clear material, is highly sensitive and furthermore can hold a charge - the electret effect - that makes it uncommonly suitable for this kind of pickup. Kynar dielectric coax cable is also used in pressure sensing equipment, something you see every day as Groucho used to say. Well maybe not exactly "see" but this kind of sensing cable has been used in pressure sensors that detect motor traffic, to alert traffic signals that "cars are here" and it's time to switch from red to green for instance. In those guitar pickups, the sound quality is much different than crystal piezo materials, has richer tone and more satisfying to hear. There's an outfit in Virginia Beach that sells the cable and will make custom devices with it. Of course, using it as regular coax to transmit signals would be a disaster. For every lemon there's some lemonade to be made.

[km6xz]

Triboelectric effect is better known by most techs as static electricity and cause of ESD. Not all materials charge when contacting other differing materials so EDS as it is know as in electronics is more of a risk with certain materials on opposite ends of the charge scale coming into contact. Polystyrene for example has a natural positive charge and silicone rubber has a strong negative charge so expect discharge when they are around. Most metals are not strongly charged and some are pretty low such as aluminum and most alloys of steel are neutral. Low static wire is not really special or expensive, any type can be, it is the opposing material charge that makes the difference. That is one of the several reasons that cotton or other low charge fabrics are woven into the core of power cables(along with the benefit of increasing flexibility while increasing the minimum radius it will bend to make it more durable). All decent microphone cables also have the fiber for the same reason so static build up and discharge is pretty much controlled in any decent mic or patch cable. Where it IS a problem with cheap cables with highly charged materials on the exterior contact surface and no drain fibers in the core. These will be bad for high z inputs for static noise and bad for patching into solid-state circuits that do not tolerate the discharge through its substrate. To make sure, make your own cables. If you cheaped out and bought wire that was easy to work with, it will probably be bad for static and potentially harmful to what you plug it into.
A good rule of thumb is the plug a cable in to the low z source side first, then attach the high z end to wherever it goes. A cable running 200 feet to an unterminated junction box can damage gear when plugged in. And give you a strong static shock to boot. It is not usually dangerous to humans, the discharge is very fast since there is little total energy, just a few thousand volts of peak voltage.
There are basic electronic and mechanical traits of cables that call for decently designed cable and not to be construed as "better cables sound better" or have magic in them, they just do less damage.