Is it just highe end? (cable differnces)

[Tom Phillips]

Are active pickups or electronics an option?
That would get around the cable issue.

Never.

Are you saying "Never" to a simple 1 FET buffer stage at or near the guitar output? That is electronics but the circuit can be transparent and can be done without modifying the guitar. In fact, it can just be a special cable assembly which is what you are essentially experimenting with already.
There is lots of related discussion on the web.

[g1]

Never.

So "no silicon in my signal path" . Fair enough.

[Chuck H]

I did a search on daz's behalf and found that Elixir cables have a following. Supposed to have a capacitance of 10pf or 11pf per foot (info varied). So this fifteen footer (165pf for the cable footage) should be under 190pf (most jacks are 5pf to 10pf but it's possible that Elixir has reduced this too).

Elixir 92115 Elixir Cable Straight - Straight 15' - Indigo Tunes - One Stop Shop For Music

[Mark Hammer]

I regularly suggest the following to folks who are just beginning to explore the role of cables in their tone...

Take the shortest cable you have, that you can actually plug into your guitar and amp at the same time, and play your guitar through it, directly into the amp. Now, take the longest cable you have, and do the same thing. The difference in tone you hear - assuming you hear some - is due entirely to the cable.

Now, which parameter of cable is likely subject to discussion, because whatever your 1ft moulded pedalboard cables, with the colourful vinyl insulation on the plug and cable, is made of, is likely not what your 20ft-er is made of. But, chances are that your short patch cablesare not made of something of higher quality than your 20ft-er.

As for "never" sticking anything active, I honestly can't understand what the objection to placing the same unity-gan buffer found in the first pedal on your board, at the other end of the cable. An active preamp i the guitar, that yields a higher output? I can readily understand that apprehension. I've had the same disappointing experience with onboard preamps that yielded a hot signal which would nicely overdrive the amp, if plugged in directly, but wreeked havoc on pedals that were expecting an altogether different input level.

But that's not the same as unity gain buffer. Don Tillman's buffer, built into the plug, is a regular recommendation. In fact the very first preamp I ever made, in 1976, was a single FET amp similar to Tillman's, built into the head of a rat, so we could send teensy tiny EEG signals over a 50ft cable to an A/D convertor in our minicomputer. I wish I had SMD in those days.

[SHOOTOUT!]

Ruggedness (soldering quality, cable shield type, strain relief, connector durability, correct direction soldering of right angle patch cables for purpose to avoid twisting), total distributed capacitance, low noise cable (shield type again and a carbon dielectric for handling noise).

Many pages of explanation here:

Guitar Cables Explained

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Marc.

[Chuck H]

This guy seems to think a good cable is all about the plug.

[Tooboob]

Paul Reed Smith claimed he could swap the ends of a guitar cable and hear the difference. On the other hand, achieving wizard status is profitable. For me, I think daz nailed the most important cable parameter in the first post - "tangled free". For me the second most important thing is a right-angle plug with enough clearance to plug into the recessed jack on my Tele.

It's much cheaper to worry about your pick. They're maybe 85 cents a try, unless you fall for more snake oil. Or wonder if recovering your amp with carpet will sound better than Tolex.

Even if cables sound different, how do you judge which one sounds better? Highs? Your amp has knobs for that. Clarity? Is that necessarily a good thing? Playing your guitar through your stereo probably won't sound too good to you.

[Tooboob]

Here's an interesting article that will show the effect of cable capacitance. Of course, optimum response isn't defined:

BuildYourGuitar.com :: The Secrets of Electric Guitar Pickups

[Chuck H]

Regardless of popular opinion... it sounds different if highs are attenuated to the input and boosted in the tone stack than if the highs are present at the input and the tone stack is likewise adjusted. It also sounds different running a low impedance preamp to the amp input than it does with a standard pickup straight in. No one is being pedantic and I'm not trying to be semantic (and I will, I will eat your green eggs and ham ). If a low capacitance cable and a pickup straight into the amp gets daz the tone he wants, he should do exactly that.

[Leo_Gnardo]

As for "never" sticking anything active, I honestly can't understand what the objection to placing the same unity-gan buffer found in the first pedal on your board, at the other end of the cable. An active preamp i the guitar, that yields a higher output? I can readily understand that apprehension. I've had the same disappointing experience with onboard preamps that yielded a hot signal which would nicely overdrive the amp, if plugged in directly, but wreeked havoc on pedals that were expecting an altogether different input level.

But that's not the same as unity gain buffer. Don Tillman's buffer, built into the plug, is a regular recommendation. In fact the very first preamp I ever made, in 1976, was a single FET amp similar to Tillman's, built into the head of a rat, so we could send teensy tiny EEG signals over a 50ft cable to an A/D convertor in our minicomputer. I wish I had SMD in those days.

Yes a buffer at the guitar end of the cable is a wonderful thing, but lots of folks who try it then exclaim "it's so briiiiight!" Then you gots to load down the input of your buffer with a r/c to simulate cable capacitance plus amp input load (grid leak) resistor for that "life like" tone. Just can't win.

You one upped us once again with your "original Rat." I got to see the Good Rats a couple times back then, they'd throw a barrel of fake plastic rats into the audience, but you had the real thing, awesome !

[Tom Phillips]

This guy seems to think a good cable is all about the plug.

Well...there is lots of good information on his web site.
And...the plugs are where many of the failures occur.
I have worked on many systems where proper plug clocking was a big benefit.
Tom

[tedmich]

check this German wire, 16pF/ft !

Sommer Cable - SC-SPIRIT LLX LOW LOSS, Instrumentenkabel - Tube-Town GmbH

[Chuck H]

Well...there is lots of good information on his web site.
And...the plugs are where many of the failures occur.
I have worked on many systems where proper plug clocking was a big benefit.
Tom

I agree. I was ribbing him for having seen the thread and signing on just to "plug" his product. It was a joke.?. They look like good cables. Good enough to justify a plug! Take it with a

[Alex R]

I like the curly ones.

Curly lead tone from my youth :

https://youtu.be/rViBFgjChH0

plenty of silicon in the signal path too lol

What I mean is, there's hifi malarkey and there's rock n roll.

[dai h.]

wow can you imagine how much better Hendrix, Page, et al COULD'VE sound if they only had access to ULTRA LOW CAPACITANCE CABLE!!!!!!!!!

(JUST KIDDING NOW!)

(the C is just basically about affect on the pickup's resonance peak, maybe moving it higher (plus more amplitude) where the human ear tends to be more sensitive and therefore "sounds better", or is there more to it than that?)