In ear Monitors. Guitar cabinet behind you.

[johnatanasoff]

Guys,

To you guitar players who have experience using in ear monitors.
Do you find it's better not to have the guitar cabinet behind you?

Live we don’t use stage ammunition. Only in ear monitors; and in my case the cab is behind me.

If it’s a proven mistake; I will mic it behind the stage or use Plexiglass shields to decrease the volume.


What’s your experience?

[Chuck H]

Too much fussy thinking about it. Example:

Carlos Santana marks the spots on stage where he can pull off his infinite sustain thing when the band does the rehearsal. Nuff said? No? Just play in a proximity to your amp that makes your guitar sound "right" to you. Because it's how YOU feel the guitar during the show that matters most. The audience is along for the ride and anomalous quirks in your playing because things aren't working the way you planned will be noticed. As a guitar player you should understand that the amp/guitar interaction is very much a part of the "instrument" on the whole. Play in relation to your amp where it works best for you. ALWAYS!!! There are a lot of posters here that do or did gig some. I'm sure they would all agree that when you need that "thing" to happen that's relative to amp/guitar interaction and it doesn't it feels like the damn walls are closing in around you. Don't let this happen to you. Whether you use in ear monitors, stage monitors or just stand there in front of the drum kit with the bass amp pointed a little in your direction will depend on the venue. I've done all three WITH THE SAME BAND and it always depends on the venue. We always ran our own sound so I could mix the in ears or stage monitors for balance relative to MY proximity to MY amp. There's no limit to how far a guitar player may have to go for his/her tone If you don't mix your own band then don't be afraid to talk to the "sound guy". He'll help if he can. And he should, but may not always be capable because good sound guys are rare as hens teeth. But my point is...

Stand in relation to your amp such that you can get the amp/guitar interactions that you want and learn to either control (or sometimes tolerate) the circumstances around it.

That's my $.02

[Enzo]

Chuck is more eloquent about it, but I agree. The sound from your stage amp interacts with your guitar strings, which won;t happen with earphones. The proximity to the speakers, the direction your guitar faces relative to the speakers, etc all affect your sound.


And decrease the volume for who? The audience? The stage? GUitar speakers can beam out and just kill the poor sap right in front. That is why they make "beam blockers" for the, But by the same token, just angling your amp back a few degrees aims that sound beam over the heads of the audience, and up to your ears instead. If you are concerned it is too lound for the band, you can always turn down, an aim the amp away from the other musicians. You can even lean back your amp in front of you like a vocal monitor would be. We had a guitist who tossed a throw rug over his 4x12 to tone it down.

[olddawg]

Every situation and band is different. If your aren't an "A Lister" and always have the same or at least very similar stage area and footprint it's hard to say. Generally I try to keep the stage volume relative to an unmiked drummer. That way the in ear monitors just act like ear plugs and mostly have a vocal sub mix in them. That said.... I play too many gigs where I'm forced to stand too close to my amp and have to be very careful of pickup squeal. I prefer a low wattage amp (20-30 watts.... sometimes even less) unless it is a LARGE venue and for the past decade prefer an open back combo with a matching open back extension cab on the other side of the stage. To me that "fills" in all directions. BUT .... in my most recent band I've had to change to a single closed back "4x10" Marshall cab because this drummer swares that the open back combo reflects off of the back wall and rattles him. He's the only guy in 40 years I've had that complaint with and it doesn't bother a sub drummer when we have one. Basically you just have to do what works. I prefer wedges. I've rarely used in ear monitors except when there was a click track or some pitchy chick in the band. But the price for them is coming down and they definitely will improve your vocal accuracy. Takes me some getting used to. Like playing in platform shoes, lol.

[Chuck H]

That's funny about the drummer. I had the opposite problem. When I used a cab on either side of the stage my drummer always wanted to angle one more toward himself! He loved grindy guitars. Sometimes it was a problem because he would get drunk and start playing off me instead of the bass player. Then the bass player would have to follow us instead of me following them. Not that my timing was bad (or maybe the bass players was ), but when that happens you sort of lose the pocket.

[johnatanasoff]

Chuck is more eloquent about it, but I agree. The sound from your stage amp interacts with your guitar strings, which won;t happen with earphones. The proximity to the speakers, the direction your guitar faces relative to the speakers, etc all affect your sound.


And decrease the volume for who? The audience? The stage? GUitar speakers can beam out and just kill the poor sap right in front. That is why they make "beam blockers" for the, But by the same token, just angling your amp back a few degrees aims that sound beam over the heads of the audience, and up to your ears instead. If you are concerned it is too lound for the band, you can always turn down, an aim the amp away from the other musicians. You can even lean back your amp in front of you like a vocal monitor would be. We had a guitist who tossed a throw rug over his 4x12 to tone it down.

Decrease the volume for me (so that it does not entirely kill the in ear's sound itself), the band and the audience if the sound engineer and conditions require it.

That's because it should be mic'ed loud. That's how you get dynamics and the best distortion sound to the PA and no weakened sound to your in ears (captured from the Mic. In our case that's how we did it. It could not be splited from amp's back input, to in ears; then Mic'd to PA.

Tossing a throw rug in front of an amp is a bad idea, from a tonal/engineering perspective.

[johnatanasoff]

Every situation and band is different. If your aren't an "A Lister" and always have the same or at least very similar stage area and footprint it's hard to say. Generally I try to keep the stage volume relative to an unmiked drummer. That way the in ear monitors just act like ear plugs and mostly have a vocal sub mix in them. That said.... I play too many gigs where I'm forced to stand too close to my amp and have to be very careful of pickup squeal. I prefer a low wattage amp (20-30 watts.... sometimes even less) unless it is a LARGE venue and for the past decade prefer an open back combo with a matching open back extension cab on the other side of the stage. To me that "fills" in all directions. BUT .... in my most recent band I've had to change to a single closed back "4x10" Marshall cab because this drummer swares that the open back combo reflects off of the back wall and rattles him. He's the only guy in 40 years I've had that complaint with and it doesn't bother a sub drummer when we have one. Basically you just have to do what works. I prefer wedges. I've rarely used in ear monitors except when there was a click track or some pitchy chick in the band. But the price for them is coming down and they definitely will improve your vocal accuracy. Takes me some getting used to. Like playing in platform shoes, lol.

Open or closed cab is also a preference. I've played mostly open combos so far myself.
Open cab's give you more middle range singing notes and a more "open sound".

Closed will give you more bottom and bass but a more "closed sound" lol. I have only played them in shops. Maybe live it's a different story and they might fill the stage more...


Your drummer might be more detail oriented and with a sharper ear. That's a good thing.
The bad is that you need to adopt to his needs...

[The Dude]

Throwing a wrench in the mix- no pun intended: I don't use a cabinet at all live, but a cabinet emulator. I've never had a problem getting sustain or a pseudo guitar/amp interaction when wanted.

[Chuck H]

Throwing a wrench in the mix- no pun intended: I don't use a cabinet at all live, but a cabinet emulator. I've never had a problem getting sustain or a pseudo guitar/amp interaction when wanted.

Are you using a pedal board? Maybe a compressor is in there? Infinite sustain without an amp in proximity? Are you typically uber gain for lead tones? (you know why I'm asking )

[The Dude]

I use an old Peavey Rockmaster preamp (all tube). Then out into a delay- not an effect delay. It's a delay meant for time aligning speakers and I can't recall at the moment what the model is. I use it to delay one channel a few milliseconds for a thickening/double track effect. Then into an old ADA Microcab speaker simulator. From there, straight into the snake. There's no compressor. I do have a "Boss thingy" in the loop for the occasional delay and/or chorus, but it's used little. I use a lot of gain, but not "modern metal" gain. I wouldn't say "uber". I like to actually be able to hear the notes in a chord. Believe me- it works well. I've had lots of axe players in national acts ask me what I'm playing through. They have a hard time believing me when I show them that I'm not using a mic'd cabinet. Now, if I could just learn to play.

[Chuck H]

You had me at Rockmaster