Why didn't Ampeg amps become more popular?

[Chuck H]

The V-9 is an SVT power amp chassis with a guitar preamp up top. I used to have one, but sold it to a friend here in town.

That sounds like an idea who's time has come for the metal guys. Put a modern, uber gain preamp behind an SVT power amp and low B away Of course you could do that with any number of SS power amps to similar affect, but that's not the point

[Justin Thomas]

My first REAL experience with a bass amp was with an SVT. I'd heard Peaveys, Hartkes, GKs, Acoustic, Fender - all those super-power SS combos & stacks... But when my friend called me asking if he should get this 300W 1972 Ampeg with an 8x10" I told him to go check it out and bring me.

We show up at a warehouse with my buddy's Beatle Bass copy with a big fat humbucker, turn that amp to 6 or so, end of story. There has been no turning back for me. Look, I play Rock & Punk. There is NO substitute for that amp, and no matter how much power, no matter how "nice" the speakers (cuz I'm with Juan - more efficient & lighter is the way to go), no matter anything else: fat tube amp growl, playable at many levels, anything else is just a cheap imitation of that first SVT Experience.

For me, there is no return to a SS bass amp. My Bassmans with my 2x15" is just dandy, though I'd feel safer with some more power handling...

Justin

Edit: my 2nd experience with a "real" bass amp was a 62 B-15N. I'm spoiled.

[Enzo]

Our bassist had an Acoustic 360, which was the happening amp for a time. Then the SVT and a pair of 8x10 cabs showed up, and took over the world. The 8x10 is right there right now, instant response.

I did like the MOSFET amps like the Trace Elliot. The sound was so smooth and effortless.

[bob p]

Our bassist had an Acoustic 360, which was the happening amp for a time. Then the SVT and a pair of 8x10 cabs showed up, and took over the world. The 8x10 is right there right now, instant response.

Yeah that's what I meant previously when I said that Acoustic ruled until Ampeg came along and ate their lunch. I had that 360 (head) and 361 (cab) rig (below). It was the shit... and so were the 370 and the 371 that followed...


... until Ampeg came out with their Superior Valve Technology that required two refrigerator sized 8x10 cabinets because the head could easily blow up the single 8x10 fridge. Suddenly the SVT was *K*I*N*G* and the Acoustics had been blown off of the stage.

What's funny is that the Acoustic guys have reissued the 360/361 amps at high prices to collectors who want to relive that period when Acoustic was on top. Real men don't buy into that. They've already got their SVTs and they don't want to go back, lol.

I have to admit, hauling my SVT around can be a bit of a PITA. My heads weigh in at about 100 lb. Now that I'm getting to be an old fart it's getting to be a bitch to do that military press with a head that's heavier than a Twin Reverb loaded with JBLs and set it down on top of an 8x10. Every time I had to do that it made me think that the guys who'd whine about how much a Twin Reverb weights needed to eat more Wheaties. Now that I'm graying out I'm finding that one man lifts of the SVT head onto the cab are just getting too dangerous (don't want to drop it!) so I've resigned to putting the rackheads into a wheeled rack system.

For a long time I have been thinking about building a smaller "SVT-lite" with 2x6550 for a 100W practice amp. It'd basically be 1/3 of an SVT at the same voltages, and it'd still be mean, instead of that stupid V4-B reissue that doesn't have adequate voltage rip your face off like a real V4-B used to do. Those old Ampegs sure were some killers. The new reissues? Not so much. They're just your generic low-voltage 4x6L6 amp which isn't very exciting compared to the old stuff.

[teemuk]

In the late 1970's and early 1980's their bass amps started to have pretty heavy competitors by the likes of A.M.P., Gallien&Krueger, SWR, Eden, Hartke, Trace Elliot, etc. Many of these companies showed real innovation (e.g. new speaker technologies, bi-amping setups, etc.) while Ampeg was merely riding with its "we make SVT" bandwagon. It kept them floating, though.

They didn't concentrate much on guitar amps either. True, Ampeg made a few GREAT guitar amps - but they were pulled quickly from markets and practically identical designs were then marketed under their "Crate" brand, which unfortunately didn't have the "prestige" of Ampeg brand. They didn't sell all that well, and there was competition from likes of Mesa-Boogie and Marshall, and then came the the tube-revival and boutique periods, to which Ampeg tried to cater with mild success by introducing reissues of their older amps.

[Leo_Gnardo]

you still risk blowing an SVT cab if you only plug in one cabinet. But at least you weren't stuck with only 1/3 or 1/2 power. Justin

There's something to be aware of here. Our flakey friend Gerald Weber published an article he wrote "The SVT Blooze" around 25 years ago, and some of my crustomers brought me copies. Darling Gerald claimed all SVT's swapped their 2 and 4 ohm output windings, in an effort to NOT blow speakers. I've worked on scores of SVT's and seen this happen exactly once. So it's something to look out for, but don't follow Gerald's dodgy advice and swap taps on every one you encounter, rather check and see whether that's the case on the one you're working on. An inability to drive 200W into a 4 ohm load with fresh output tubes would be a good clue...

bob p, Dixie Dregs will be touring again starting early 2018. You could tackle Mr Morse & ask him if he wants to part with his V-9. They're rare as rocking horse turds. If he's still using it on stage I'm guessing the answer will be no.

[bob p]

Steve Morse? I'm surprised that he's still kicking.

I've thought about just dumping a guitar preamp feed into the effects return line, but that would be cheating, right?

[nsubulysses]

Wouldn't switching impedance taps to mismatch 2 and 4 ohms be harder on the tubes since more screen current flows at impedance mismatches. as an aside?

[Leo_Gnardo]

Steve Morse? I'm surprised that he's still kicking.

I've thought about just dumping a guitar preamp feed into the effects return line, but that would be cheating, right?

Steve is probably one of those "rock stars" that doesn't fit the party-yourself-to-death pattern. During lean years, 1980's, in his career he took on a job of piloting puddle-jumper airlines, practicing his guitar in off hours. If there was any time he was in danger, it's when he took off in a new small plane he just bought, and its engine failed just after takeoff due to oil system failure. He managed to turn it around & make a safe landing, only just barely.

No problem cheating by plugging your choice of guitar pre & fx into an SVT power amp. Sure why not? You'll undoubtedly find your clean sounds have practically no limit in volume. Remember that Grateful Dead wall of sound? Like 'em or not, that was the principle: don't run out of power. If anything have more than you could possibly need. Clean tones require power, loud & clean, LOTS of power. There's no way around it.

nsubulysses, true swapped output taps would stress tubes more. According to Gerald the world's foremost expert, the idea was to spare the speakers, so what about the tubes. I have a hard time believing Ampeg would actually do this on purpose. What I more suspect is this was a nugget of blarney fed to Gerald by Ken Fisher, to see whether he would believe it and pass it along. Apparently it worked.

[Chuck H]

Steve Morse? I'm surprised that he's still kicking.

I've thought about just dumping a guitar preamp feed into the effects return line, but that would be cheating, right?

No

[Chuck H]

Wouldn't switching impedance taps to mismatch 2 and 4 ohms be harder on the tubes since more screen current flows at impedance mismatches. as an aside?

It's a little vague the way it's stated. I'd say, in one direction yes, in the other no. Just some silliness on GW's part that probably amounts to rare a wire color mistake from the iron manufacturer that got translated to assembly.

[Axtman]

Back to my original question....

It seems like everybody and their grandmother play Fender amps. (Which reminds me that I need to get my Twin Reverb back from granny!) You can't swing a dead power transformer without hitting some guy playing a vintage Fender amp. All the guitar stores have a few vintage Fenders. Yet when it comes to Ampeg amps, I rarely see them. (Maybe it is an East Coast / West Coast thing?) Up until I read the Ampeg book, I though Ampeg only made a few models for a limited time. I had no idea they had been in business for so long making so many amplifiers! Heck, I see more Silvertone amps than I do vintage Ampeg amps!

Why are Ampeg amps not that popular and where did all the vintage ones go?

[Chuck H]

Back to my original question....

It seems like everybody and their grandmother play Fender amps. (Which reminds me that I need to get my Twin Reverb back from granny!) You can't swing a dead power transformer without hitting some guy playing a vintage Fender amp. All the guitar stores have a few vintage Fenders. Yet when it comes to Ampeg amps, I rarely see them. (Maybe it is an East Coast / West Coast thing?) Up until I read the Ampeg book, I though Ampeg only made a few models for a limited time. I had no idea they had been in business for so long making so many amplifiers! Heck, I see more Silvertone amps than I do vintage Ampeg amps!

Why are Ampeg amps not that popular and where did all the vintage ones go?

That's funny (in bold above).

As many amps as Ampeg made, it's a pittance compared to Fender I'm sure. So where did they all go? They're around. You'll see them about as often as vintage Traynors, Magnatones, Gibsons, Sunns, Acoustics and Oranges. Sort of the same thing as not seeing as many vintage International pickups as you do Fords. Not that International pickups aren't good or even very good. Or even BETTER than the Ford products in some regards. Just that Ford made a lot more by virtue of marketing and popularity.

Fender was earlier in the game and already respected as a brand. They continued to make products consistent with their customers expectations. Those two things alone were powerful in the market at that time. Ampeg was trying to break into a market that Fender partially, if not essentially created.

Ampeg is a name derived from amp-peg. A device made for orchestral stringed instruments that was a pickup installed in the bottom peg assembly to allow them to be amplified. That is to say, amplifiers had already been around a while before Ampeg tried to take a share of the market. Whereas Fenders success is at least partly relative to the fact that THEY made the guitars AND amplifiers that tuned our ears. These two items were made in situ, together, contemporaneous to each other. You knew if you bought Fender products that it would be "correct". For anyone who didn't know exactly what they wanted, didn't have a voice of their own or wasn't into experimenting Fender was the easy choice. And, of course, they were excellent amps that many players chose on their own merit. I don't know the actual numbers regarding what Fender sold compared to Ampeg by the time the original Ampeg company became defunct, but I'll bet it's so disproportionate that you'd just shake your head at your last post.

[g1]

I think you could ask the same question about Vox or pretty much any other brand that is not Fender or Marshall.
A big part of it may be that I don't think they ever targeted the rock 'n roll crowd. Like Justin touched on, the founder was kind of anti-distortion.
There was a time when Ampeg was big with the accordian set. Aside from the local auction barn, where are you going to see an accordian guy playing?
They were much more into bass amps than guitar amps. You may not see a lot of them on stage, but porta-flexes are in a lot of studios.
And any larger show I see usually has an SVT in the backline.

[Leo_Gnardo]

I think you could ask the same question about Vox or pretty much any other brand that is not Fender or Marshall.
A big part of it may be that I don't think they ever targeted the rock 'n roll crowd. Like Justin touched on, the founder was kind of anti-distortion.
There was a time when Ampeg was big with the accordian set. Aside from the local auction barn, where are you going to see an accordian guy playing?
They were much more into bass amps than guitar amps. You may not see a lot of them on stage, but porta-flexes are in a lot of studios.
And any larger show I see usually has an SVT in the backline.

I don't have up-to-date stats, but in the 90's the popular brands were Crate, Peavey and Fender in the USA. Marshall for all its recognition held a minor corner of the market, about 4%. Even less for Vox.

True that Ampeg was late to the guitar market, and its founders were bass playing hi fi nuts. The owners manual in the 60's consisted of a single sheet of paper, in which they recommended "if you hear distortion turn the amp down!" Nonetheless some guitarists found the charm of Ampeg's amps. There's a photo of Bob Dylan at the piano, around the Nashville Skyline / Blonde on Blonde era, with a couple of Ampeg combos silhouetted in the foreground, so one can reasonably conclude they were in use for these recordings plus any number of other Nashville-recorded hits of the time.

SVT's and B15's made it everywhere, the small guitar/accordion Ampegs not so much. Working in LA late 80's early 90's I found lots of local guitarists that weren't familiar with the 60's & 70's classics, and they were going for peanuts secondhand in music stores. Jets, Geminis & Reverberockets could be had for a buck and a quarter, then the new lookalike Ampegs were being issued by St. Louis Music by 94-95.