I’m considering sacrilege... DI processor/SansAmp?

[olddawg]

So... I’ve been a tube amp guy for nearly 50 years... but for a decade or so I’ve been using smaller and smaller gear. Lately I’ve been using a 1x12” 20 watt EL84 combo mostly for gigs. But I’m getting old and tiring of dragging even that around after a heart attack last year. I’m almost always miked. Last week my bass player (who is at least 10 years younger than me, lol) had enough and DIed a Bass SansAmp. Sounded fine. (The PA is triamped with subs and we have 4 15” monitors). So the last couple of gigs he just plugs in a small pedal board with the SansAmp on it. I find myself thinking... damn my back hurts... I wish I could just do that and sound that good. . Here’s the rub.. I’ve never used a solid state rig I liked.. especially processors and bass, of course, is an entirely different animal. BUT I am aware that technology is improving all of the time. I loath to go to GC and try things out. 12 year old idiot salesman syndrome just drives me nuts. At least for now I would like to try a small box DI amp that I can plug my existing pedal board into that sounds REASONABLY like my 2 channel tube amp.... maybe consider an all in one PROCESSOR TYPE unit later. I see guys traveling to gigs when I’m flying all of the time just bringing a guitar and a DI unit it a case. Not sure what they are using exactly. There was a time I used two amps (Fender clean and Marshall dirty) with an a/b switch. Now I just use a 2 channel amp with an extra tube in the gain channel. I would need the SansAmp to work something like that. I’m using the name SansAmp in a generic sense. I didn’t like the one I tried a decade ago. It was ok clean but the drive was plastic as hell.
Any suggestions?

[pdf64]

How about modelling your tube amps? Some discussion on that at TAG http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30690

[glebert]

Don't have any specific gear to recommend, but my opinion on modelers is that you have to be willing to tinker a bit with them if you want to get a very specific sound. Often there are EQ parameters that can be front end, midamp, power amp, or post speakers that you use to shape the sound. Compression (especially multiband) would probably also be helpful in getting the sound you want.

Also, if you narrow down the search to a few particular models, watch the used section on guitarcenter.com. They have a 45 day return policy so you could buy something and give it a really thorough going through and if you don't like it you are only out the shipping, which should be pretty low for an effects processor.

Good luck.

[Roberto]

How about modelling your tube amps? Some discussion on that at TAG http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30690

Kemper or Fractal for high grade rack gear, otherwise here you can find something simpler:
https://www.two-notes.com/en/torpedo-cab

[J M Fahey]

You should give the Sans Amp Classic a second opportunity.
They actually sound quite acceptable but most people use them *wrong* (same with zillion mode floor modelers): these are NOT distortion pedals and MUST NOT be plugged into a regular guitar input, what most do.

They deliver a "fully cooked and ready to eat" sound, which is destroyed if passing through the strong built-in EQ (specially brutal treble boost) found in Guitar amps, they are meant to go straight into Recording or PA mixers or a PC (where they do a credible job) or, for live use, into a **flat** amplifier such as Tech 21 Power Engine

http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/po...rengine60.html

If you dare to builde something, I´d suggest this: the pedalbuilding guys (GGG, etc.) have published the Sans Amp project which cvan be built in a couple evenings, they even offer an etched and drilled PCB.

The basic concept is simple, but is complicated by the zillion switchable options which make its guts a spaghetti bowl (4 rotary or sliding switches offering 3 or 4 different options each).
Different amps, gain settings, cabinet type, even microphone angle

I suggest you build *two* boards, one *fixed* Blackface type, NO mode switches, just jumper the settings you like, and another "Marshally" one, same thing, then you switch between them, period.

Basically "your old setup inside a pedal box"

And then go straight into PA or if you wish build a small ultralight combo (for home practice) with a 15/25W SS amp (LM1875 or similar) driving a MOD10-50 speaker which is quite light and inside a 12" x 12" x 10" cube cabinet made out of 3/8" plywood ... or go wild and use an EBay sourced 40/70W Class D amp with built in SMPS .... featherlight combo still suitable for Club work on its own.

EDIT: I´m finishing today a similar system for a customer, to be delivered tomorrow.

Twice as large as I suggested above: 100W and 2 x 10" speakers , but inside the thin plywood cabinet, built for a Metalhead/Punk who wants to travel light and yet be heard alongside a loud drummer.

I´ll post a couple pictures when I finish it, I guess tonight.

[big_teee]

This is a joke Olddawg.
The joke is, It sounds like you need to retire!
Maybe carry them a CD of you music to pop in the amp PA!
Modeler pedal amp? IMO Sacrilege for sure!
YMMV,
T

[rjb]

YMMV

http://www.tech21nyc.com/halloffame/

[big_teee]

That was your IMO, and my post was mine.
Like I said, the CD in a boom box, or blue tooth to an I-phone to the PA, would be easiest.
That way you don't have to carry that big heavy 6 pound SG guitar either!
If a EL84 amp is to heavy to get on stage, it might be time to play from the barcalounger!
Just my 2 cents!
Tubes forever!
T
**He said it might be sacrilege, I was just agreeing with him!

[olddawg]

You should give the Sans Amp Classic a second opportunity.
They actually sound quite acceptable but most people use them *wrong* (same with zillion mode floor modelers): these are NOT distortion pedals and MUST NOT be plugged into a regular guitar input, what most do.

They deliver a "fully cooked and ready to eat" sound, which is destroyed if passing through the strong built-in EQ (specially brutal treble boost) found in Guitar amps, they are meant to go straight into Recording or PA mixers or a PC (where they do a credible job) or, for live use, into a **flat** amplifier such as Tech 21 Power Engine

http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/po...rengine60.html

If you dare to builde something, I´d suggest this: the pedalbuilding guys (GGG, etc.) have published the Sans Amp project which cvan be built in a couple evenings, they even offer an etched and drilled PCB.

The basic concept is simple, but is complicated by the zillion switchable options which make its guts a spaghetti bowl (4 rotary or sliding switches offering 3 or 4 different options each).
Different amps, gain settings, cabinet type, even microphone angle

I suggest you build *two* boards, one *fixed* Blackface type, NO mode switches, just jumper the settings you like, and another "Marshally" one, same thing, then you switch between them, period.

Basically "your old setup inside a pedal box"

And then go straight into PA or if you wish build a small ultralight combo (for home practice) with a 15/25W SS amp (LM1875 or similar) driving a MOD10-50 speaker which is quite light and inside a 12" x 12" x 10" cube cabinet made out of 3/8" plywood ... or go wild and use an EBay sourced 40/70W Class D amp with built in SMPS .... featherlight combo still suitable for Club work on its own.

EDIT: I´m finishing today a similar system for a customer, to be delivered tomorrow.

Twice as large as I suggested above: 100W and 2 x 10" speakers , but inside the thin plywood cabinet, built for a Metalhead/Punk who wants to travel light and yet be heard alongside a loud drummer.

I´ll post a couple pictures when I finish it, I guess tonight.

Thanks Juan.. I value your input. I was thinking of going that route. I've never been satisfied with going direct but honestly I didn't spend a lot of time doing it. Many gigs, especially casinos require that you DI. I've heard people sound pretty good doing it honestly. I plan on using an XLR into a board channel line level and flat. For a start I was going to just try my existing pedal board and a cheap ART 12AX7 preamp/DI box. But a SansAmp would probably act more like a real amp.

[olddawg]

That was your IMO, and my post was mine.
Like I said, the CD in a boom box, or blue tooth to an I-phone to the PA, would be easiest.
That way you don't have to carry that big heavy 6 pound SG guitar either!
If a EL84 amp is to heavy to get on stage, it might be time to play from the barcalounger!


Just my 2 cents!
Tubes forever!
T
**He said it might be sacrilege, I was just agreeing with him!

LMAO... it's funny how life works. When I was young I had a crew moving a ton of gear. Now that I'm old I make the joke when people ask me if I play... I say no, I just move equipment... and I do it at least once a week. Honestly... I mostly play a Les Paul. I normally play 4 sets. That is still fun. But the loading the truck, unloading the truck, setting up, having the right footprint on stage, tearing down, loading then unloading the truck is the issue. What happens between my house and the damn stage is the issue. It's painful and time consuming. Just showing up with a couple of guitars and simply plugging a small whatsit on my pedal board into a PA channel is sounding more and more attractive. Sometimes I wonder if it's just an ego thing? My drummer calls my other guitarist's rig "The Starship Enterprise" it's so large and unnecessary. Lol!

[The Dude]

FWIW: I carry a Sansamp GT2 all of the time, in case my rig goes down. I'm not going to say it sounds as good as a nice tube rig, but it's plenty acceptable and fits in a guitar case.

[Chuck H]

I've been penciling a "preamp" that's actually a full amp, complete with push/pull power amp using 6ak6's for a couple of watts into a reactive attenuator feeding a speaker emulator. It could be used as a two watt amp for home practice or recording with a mic or plugged straight into a mixing board. And I expect it to sound like a tube guitar amp because it IS a tube guitar amp. I got the idea after hearing sound samples of a 6ak6 5e3 someone made. It sounded LIKE A GUITAR AMP! Distinctly NOT like those little *oonlight things that use a single 12au7 in self split operation So I'm throwing this idea on the table. I managed a pretty good circuit for the reactive attenuator and speaker emulation, though the emulator hasn't been ear tested. I'm happy to share those circuits. I'll need to draw it up on the poot for upload since it's just in pencil now.

[Enzo]

Chuck, why don't you look up the Fender Princeton Recording Amp. Might hold some interest.

[olddawg]

FWIW: I carry a Sansamp GT2 all of the time, in case my rig goes down. I'm not going to say it sounds as good as a nice tube rig, but it's plenty acceptable and fits in a guitar case.

I've always wondered if you would need two. One set up for the Marshall(ish) sound and one set up for a Fender(ish) clean sound and an A/B switch. They are not 2 Channel the foot switch is just a bypass. Bypass would just put the guitar straight into the board. And... the other issue is volume boosting for lead solos. It was never a problem with a sound man out front with a snake. Nowadays I have an Weber speaker attenuator that I can turn off and on with a foot switch so I can get on top of the mix with the same tone clean or dirty.

[The Dude]

Most of the time, I only use one channel. If I want to clean it up a bit, I just back off the guitar volume. That said, I'm well aware that this doesn't work for everyone- depending on what kind or kinds of music you play. Oh, and we do have a sound man to bump solos, so that isn't a concern either.

Edit: I should add that, on the rare occasion I'm gigging without a sound man, I just stick a pedal in front of the rig for a boost. I run more volume than gain. In other words, I don't so much use it for distortion, it's more for a volume/solo boost.