Drum microphones

[frosty55]

Can anyone tell me the best uses for some mics on a drumkit?
I have a Beyer Dynamic M69 TG, SM58, SM57, AKG D190E, Beyer Dynamic CK703 (2 no.), and an assortment of dynamic mics (cheap)
What mic is best suited to which part of the kit?
Is it worth hiring a good tom mic like a Sennheiser 421?
Thanks chaps.

[Enzo]

I am guessing this is not a recording studio.

Selecting one higher end mic for the toms without doing the same service to the whole kit isn;t going to serve you well. Can you imagine plutting one really high quality G string on your guitar, along with assorted other old strings? Would it lift the guitar sound?

SM57s have been a classic drum mic forever, they work fine. That is not to say other mics won;t sound good. Me personally, I like to see all the vocal mics the same across the stage, that way I can mix the voices instead of mixing the mic responses. And I feel the same about drums - kick drum excepted. I like a heftier kick drum mic, myself.

If you are going to spread 5 mics around the drum kit, I'd rather see 5 $120 mics than one $500 mic and a bunch of mismatched other cheap ones.

In my day an RE20 was a happening kick drum mic. I don't know what the current darling of the kick drum might be.

[jrfrond]

Being a pro drummer (just like Jim Marshall!) and sound engineer, I can lend you a hand here.

There are boatloads of mics on the market of all types: cheap ones pretending to be boutique mics, boutique mics that you wouldn't carry on the gig, and then there are tried-and-true standards.

You can use Shure SM57's for just about anything. Even kick drums, but you will need to add low-frequency EQ and compression to make it happen there. Nowadays, 57's are mainly used on snare drums, so this stays the same. There is really no better snare drum mic. I use one with an LP Mic Claw, which clamps to the bottom hoop of the drum. No mic stand to get in the way.

Keeping with the "No Stands" theme, you want some good clip-on tom mics. There are many, but you need look no further than the Sennheiser E604. Compact, sturdy and great-sounding, plus they won't break the bank. They also happen to work well for snare drums too. In addition, they carry a 10-year warranty. It breaks, it gets replaced.

For kick drum, the current live standards are the AKG D112 and the Shure Beta 52. The AKG mic response is tailored with "scooped" mids, so if you like the "Boom/Click" sound, this mic is for you. The Shure Beta 52, on the other hand, has plenty of mids for more punch. BOTH are large-diaphragm mics, which you really need to capture bass instruments properly, but I prefer the Beta 52. It's easier to pull out mids than to put them back in, and the less EQ, the better. That is what it is really all about: the right mics with the least EQ.

The Sennheiser MD421 you mentioned is a GREAT mic, but it is really a studio-rat, and too expensive to be toting around in multiples.

My advice about mics in general: stay away from the cheap Chinese stuff, because you usually get what you pay for. If you stick with Sennheiser, Shure and AKG, you will not go wrong.

Oh yeah, the RE20 that Enzo mentioned is a GREAT kick mic, and was the studio-standard back in the 70's, but it's big, heavy and pricey!

[frosty55]

drum microphones

Forgot to say that the mics are for recording a demo, not for live use!

[Enzo]

Well SM57s are still great mics, not expensive, and sturdy, and good for vocals as well as your drums. If this is a one time demo thing, you can probably rent nicer mics than you can afford to own.

But no point in plugging a $500 mic into a $80 recorder. Not suggesting that is what you have, just pointing out that the whole system needs to be considered. A great mic can't overcome a crappy preamp or the limits of a cassette recorder.


And John, you are a drummer? Hmmm, I thought you were a musician...

[frosty55]

Drum mics.

We will be taping the demo on my Teac 80-8, a half inch eight track. I have a couple of behringer multicoms and several gates.
Mixing desk is a Studiomaster 166.

[jrfrond]

...And John, you are a drummer? Hmmm, I thought you were a musician...

Ahhhh, a Weisenheimer!!!

The Teac 80-8 is an excellent machine, and should make a great demo. These mics will work just fine for that too. However, you will need some overheads and HH mic as well.

I do NOT normally defer to cheap Chinese mics, but American, German and Austrian condenser mics can be horrendously pricey. However, when I needed some decent condenser's relatively cheap, I found that the Behringer B5 was a pretty decent copy of the industry-standard AKG C460, so I went with them and was very happy.

You know, if you do it the right way, you can use just three mics and get a BITCHIN' drum sound: one mic out in front of the kick about 2ft., another a few feet above the kit on the left overhead, pointing down to an area right in the middle of the snare drum, tom, crash and HH, and another on the right side overhead point down toward the ride cymbal and floor tom. If you balance these the right way and use some light compression and EQ during mixing, you can score some righteous tone. Don't gate ANYTHING during tracking!!! You CAN use some compression during tracking, to maximize signal level to tape, as well as optimize the signal-to-noise ratio. This is an adaptation of the famous "Glyn Johns Technique" which was used for Bonham on the Zeppelin tracks.

Concerning the 80-8: unless the heads were relapped recently, your outer tracks ("fringe tracks") will probably be a little wonky from head wear. Put your kick drum and bass on tracks 1 & 8. Save the inner tracks (3, 4, 5, 6) for the instruments that require the most fidelity, e.g. vocals, drum overheads. Rhythm and lead guitar tracks can go on tracks 2 & 7. Those instruments have limited bandwidth. If you can, try to procure some BASF SM-900 tape and calibrate the machine first. Even though the BASF has approximately the same bias curve as Ampex/Quantegy 456 and 499, you want to make sure everything is going to tape and coming back correctly. Poor recording makes for poor demos.

[frosty55]

drum mics

You say we will want some overheads. I assume the Beyer Dynamic CK703 are. When they came on the market they were £1000 per pair.
Also our drummer has a pair of Shure pencil condensers. Do we still need more?

[jrfrond]

No, those "pencil condensers", which are probably Shure SM81's, are super mics. Those will be more than adequate.

[NickH]

However, you will need some overheads and HH mic as well

John & Enzo's advice is superb, but I would add a couple of things...

If you use an X/Y technique for the overheads behind the kit over the drummers head, you will get a very nice overhead sound that will sum to mono perfectly without phase problems and it's unlikely you will need the hi-hat mic... (I routinely record a hi-hat channel that is never ever used in the mix when I am using the X/Y overhead technique...)

With every one of the close mics, get a set of (closed) headphones on, arm that channel and move that mic around while the drummer is giving you steady quarter notes at around 120bpm on that drum, a few inches movement can give you far larger difference in tone that mic brand ever will... especially for this level recording...

To echo what has already been said, the SM57's are great mic's, I routinely use them for each of the toms & snare top & bottom... And I do have a fair few mic's to choose from, including the 421's, for me I much prefer the 57's over the 421's for the toms as I find the 57's have a little more attack and are slightly more scooped in the midrange than the 421's and as I am recording 'Metal' 99% of the time I scoop the heck out of the toms anyway, so the SM57's are a little closer to where I am going to start off with..

The mids & low mids of the 421 seem far more 'nice' & useful however, unless I change genre it's unlikely I will ever want those frequencies more than the great top I get from the 57's...

One BIG word of warning regarding the SM57's though... DO NOT BUY THEM FROM EBAY! only buy them from a genuine Shure dealer, there are THOUSANDS of fake SM57's and they are extremely good copies apart from one tiny detail... the sound... I have found two of these fakes in the past & they looked incredible, until you plugged them in... (I sent them to Shure who kindly confirmed that they were indeed counterfeit..)

The Beta 52 as a great kick mic as is the D112, I personally prefer the D112, but you should be able to get a great sound from ether...

You should however be able to get an more than adequate kick drum sound from an SM57,having said that, the SM57 has a fairly steep roll of in the low end, which you might be able to make up for using the mic's natural proximity effect, or put the headphones on again and try each of the mic's you have & see which one sounds the best...

Another cool technique is to put a 1 x 12 guitar cab about out in front of the kick drum and wire the speaker into an xlr and record that into a channel (being careful of phase alignment) and mix to taste for added sub. The Yamaha Sub Kick works on a similar principle & a lot of studio folks use the NS10 speakers for this as well...

No doubt you already know this, but far more important than mic, pre or converter choice is tuning & drum heads, get the kit sounding great in the room before you go near it with a microphone!

I realise I am pretty new to this forum, so no one really know me yet & although I know very little about amp repair, I know a far bit about recording & recording drums, just to give you a little background on myself in case you think I am just some kid mouthing off,(and I realise this is going to make me sound like a complete git, and normally I really wouldn't mention it...) my day job is a Audio Engineer/Producer and I have around 60 albums out worldwide and on the drum side of things I am a drummer in a signed band with a couple of albums out as well... so ok,I am just a big kid mouthing off really, but I am at least an experienced big kid.

I can't really help anyone with amp repair advice here, but I am greedily taking as much advice as I can, and if I can help out in any way with any recording advice, please feel free to ask...

Mind you, if I get to know half as much about recording guitar amp as Enzo does about repairing them, I will be happy man indeed!

Cheers



N

[jrfrond]

Yeah, it's great if you've got a nice mic locker that is filled with cool stuff. When my brother worked at Capitol Studios, I used to visit him and marvel and drool over what was in their mic locker, with Neumann, RCA and other coveted mics dating back to the days of Sinatra. What mojo!!! Then I realized that all of the mics I own wouldn't buy a single one of those mics. What a reality check!!! Still and all, you can capture respectable sound by judicious selection of less pricey mics.

Good advice about the 57's. There ARE copies floating about, and they are NOT Shure quality, I can tell you.

[Enzo]

Hi Nick, thanks for the kind words. (How did we get all these drummers on our board anyway?)

My mic experience is mainly live sound. My recording experience is mostly on this side of the glass. I remember back when I was on the road, and that was something like 1971, a soundman buddy from another band proudly told me he had purchased a "Newman" microphone for some seemingly steep price. I had no idea what he was talking about. And I am sure if he had purchased a "Noyman" I still wouldn't have had a clue. Now I know what they are, but I've never touched one. I managed to get pretty good drums out of my SM57s though.

[pdf64]

The unidyne III was the precursor to the SM57 and I prefer them - smoother and sweeter, great for drums, inc kick, and cabs. They're totally robust and good 30 years down the line. Snipe at around $40 on ebay and you should get some bargains. Peter.