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Too Much Mains Voltage in Home?

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  • #1

    Too Much Mains Voltage in Home?

    Hi Everyone.

    More than, or about, a month ago, many of you helped me figure out a situation with a new power conditioner that I purchased, a Black Lion Audio PG-2 (here is the original thread). Now I am back, same product, very different scenario...

    My power conditioner has been reporting over 240 V coming from the wall, depending on the time of day. It's within spec as far as I understand (should be 230 VAC), but the last few days it has been over 247 a few times. When the voltage reaches 245 VAC, the power conditioner shuts off to protect the connected gear.

    The larger problem is that "during office hours", when most people in my neighborhood are off to work, I find I am not able to run my system until later in the day when people get home and start putting a higher load on the grid.

    Coupled with the fact that many in the area (myself included) have solar panels which is placing even less of a load on the grid.

    Of course, this is my interpretation. I am not an electrician, so please feel free to correct me.

    Then there is the fact that I have some tube amps that need that voltage to be under control as well... I have a 1969 Laney Supergroup that is already set to 250 V on the back of the amp (power tranny tap) and was barely staying in proper(ish) EL34 heater range last time I measured it (~3.5 V per pin on EL34) - but then my power was consistently 230 VAC +/- 2 or 3 volts.

    Are there any suggestions on what I should do, if anything?

    Thanks, as always, for your expertise and time!!

    I am adding a few pics to illustrate the point, which I imagine you already get.... just being thorough! :-)


    Attached Files
    "'He who first proclaims to have golden ears is the only one in the argument who can truly have golden ears.' The opponent, therefore, must, by the rules, have tin ears, since there can only be one golden-eared person per argument." - Randall Aiken
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Do you have all the gear for this station on the same breaker? Perhaps you could build a bucking transformer circuit to use between the outlet and your gear. Though IIRC there's a phase difference with how you're mains are wired compared to most so I'm not sure it could work and I won't link a schematic. Maybe someone with more "electrician" skills can comment. But if possible a bucking transformer would shave a constant 12V off your mains. So instead of 230V to 247V you would have 218V to 235V.
    "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
    You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz
    • Likes 1

    Comment

    • #3
      Chuck's bucking transformer suggestion is the first thing I thought of too. You could also make it switchable for 6V or 12V of bucking.

      Another idea for your unique situation and requirements is to purchase a more sophisticated power conditioner with the capability to regulate the output voltage. There are electronic types and units that use a ferroresonant transformer as described at https://www.sunpower-uk.com/glossary...-power-supply/ .As you would expect, these solutions would be more expensive than your existing power conditioner with the final price being dependent on the wattage capability needed.

      ​

      Comment

      • #4
        Official EU mains voltage is 230V +/- 23V.
        All equipment intended for the EU market must safely work within these limits (as attested by the mandatory CE mark).
        I don't understand why the conditioner shuts off at 245V as there shouldn't be anything to protect except the conditioner itself.

        What is the benefit of this conditioner anyway, if it doesn't stabilize mains voltage?
        - Own Opinions Only -

        Comment

        • #5
          According to the manual for the Black Lion Audio PG-2, "When this LED is ON, the PG-2 Type F is warning about under/over voltage (greater than 253VAC or less than 207VAC)". Maybe the unit is not calibrated correctly?
          "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22
          • Likes 1

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post
            Official EU mains voltage is 230V +/- 23V.
            All equipment intended for the EU market must safely work within these limits (as attested by the mandatory CE mark).
            I don't understand why the conditioner shuts off at 245V as there shouldn't be anything to protect except the conditioner itself.

            What is the benefit of this conditioner anyway, if it doesn't stabilize mains voltage?
            Ok. And always good to hear definitive information from someone that knows. But there's still the issue of the Laney. And maybe some other gear that would have been manufactured long before the 253V mandate was put in place. In other words, we may still need to reduce voltage. Or regulate it as you mentioned.
            "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

            "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

            "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
            You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by The Dude View Post
              According to the manual for the Black Lion Audio PG-2, "When this LED is ON, the PG-2 Type F is warning about under/over voltage (greater than 253VAC or less than 207VAC)". Maybe the unit is not calibrated correctly?
              That's odd.. my manual says 245 (attached pic) - at which time it just shut off itself...it happened twice over the course of the afternoon.

              Official EU mains voltage is 230V +/- 23V.
              All equipment intended for the EU market must safely work within these limits (as attested by the mandatory CE mark).
              I don't understand why the conditioner shuts off at 245V as there shouldn't be anything to protect except the conditioner itself.

              What is the benefit of this conditioner anyway, if it doesn't stabilize mains voltage?​
              Nothing really special about it other than having soft startups for connected gear. I usually buy Furman conditioners, probably should have stayed there - I should know better... more features means more problems. Too late now, I'm stuck with it since I bought it in November. I took a chance on it... in fact, when I bought it, I was under the impression it had voltage regulation... I must have been looking at the wrong product video and bought this one... not much I can do about it now other than writing it off and either coming up with some solution to remedy this, or buy something else.

              As for my Laney, I haven't used it in a few months, but I do have a pretty beefy variable transformer (see attached pic)... I was actually wondering if I could use that to tune the voltage going into the power conditioner? If I remember correctly it's maybe a 2KV 12A... or at least an 8 A...
              Attached Files
              "'He who first proclaims to have golden ears is the only one in the argument who can truly have golden ears.' The opponent, therefore, must, by the rules, have tin ears, since there can only be one golden-eared person per argument." - Randall Aiken

              Comment

              • #8
                It's odd that the documentation says an LED will come on, but no mention of an automatic shutdown. Does item #12 (thermal breaker) need to be reset when you find yourself in that 'tripped' condition? If not, I'd contact customer support. Sounds like a defect, not a feature.
                If it still won't get loud enough, it's probably broken. - Steve Conner
                If the thing works, stop fixing it. - Enzo
                We need more chaos in music, in art... I'm here to make it. - Justin Thomas
                MANY things in human experience can be easily differentiated, yet *impossible* to express as a measurement. - Juan Fahey

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gtr0 View Post
                  ...I do have a pretty beefy variable transformer (see attached pic)... I was actually wondering if I could use that to tune the voltage going into the power conditioner? If I remember correctly it's maybe a 2KV 12A... or at least an 8 A...
                  You could do that. The variable transformer probably has it's own fuse or circuit breaker although I don't see it in the photo. That should keep the setup safe. Maybe you will find a setting that allows everything to run safely throughout the day so you would not need to make frequent adjustments.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Hi TrippLite is selling a power conditionner that is lowering or boosting the tension automatically at the same time as it's filtering and protecting.
                    Here in Canada i was using a 115v model, but they should have other voltage and capacity as well.
                    Fully automatic and self supervising, i was never affected by a surge or a brownout from that point.
                    Good luck !

                    https://tripplite.eaton.com/products...30-volt~23-108

                    I do not have any link with them, beside being a pleased user...
                    Last edited by JP-Stereo; 02-01-2024, 01:17 AM.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gtr0 View Post
                      ......That's odd.. my manual says 245 (attached pic) - at which time it just shut off itself...it happened twice over the course of the afternoon. with some solution to remedy this, or buy something else......
                      That is odd! Maybe there was a production change? Maybe there is a way to recalibrate the unit for a higher voltage shutoff point? I might try contacting them to see if something can be "tweaked". The manual I found was here:

                      https://www.blacklionaudio.com/wp-co...l-02-01-23.pdf

                      and here is a pic from the manual.

                      Click image for larger version Name: Untitled-1.jpg Views: 0 Size: 193.2 KB ID: 992988
                      "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The Dude View Post

                        That is odd! Maybe there was a production change?
                        Difference is that Gtr0 has the 220V version (see SPECIFICATIONS).

                        - Own Opinions Only -

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post

                          Difference is that Gtr0 has the 220V version (see SPECIFICATIONS).
                          Well the OP is in Belgium, which according to Google is 230V, so I assumed that he's using a 230V unit. Maybe he's not and that is the problem?
                          Last edited by The Dude; 02-01-2024, 02:02 AM.
                          "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post

                            Difference is that Gtr0 has the 220V version (see SPECIFICATIONS).
                            Where did he say that? In the other thread he specified he has the type F version and linked the same manual that The Dude posted above.
                            https://music-electronics-forum.com/...ity#post990655
                            Originally posted by Enzo
                            I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


                            ​

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Since the online manual has a date attached, I would guess there has been a production change. It seems the printed manual he received does not match the online manual. The printed manual even specifies that it is for 230V (#1, Power Switch in image from post #7 above) yet has 245V shut-down.
                              Originally posted by Enzo
                              I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


                              ​

                              Comment

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