Electric fence security question...

[jjj]

Rather than shocking the hell out of them?
Why not design, or use something that makes a strobe or a loud alarm siren go off.
I bet it would have the same effect without the liability problems? T

The thing is, I want to protect my property when I'm miles away. So, alarm noise mightn't help? Then again, I have a fair chance to get better off in court then the thief and lose less valuable property. Also, since the super-low current of a 5KV (fed from a 1.5V battery) won't ever kill a healthy, athletic thief, 99.9999% chances are that the presents of this electric fence won't be even mentioned. He might break his legs for other 1000 other reasons and be silly to blame my fence for it. To 100% avoid litigation, I might be better off attaching a safety ladder to the fence, so that the thief is less likely to hurt himself.
- As you see, there's such thing as a reasonable risk, which I have to take to protect my property.
Another great idea would be to pay an electric security fence company to do the installation, because then they go to court. I have seen a number of such fences here in Santiago. Here's such a company: CERCO ELECTRICO - CERCOS ELECTRICOS - DETECTRONIC

The designs of electric fences DETECTRONIC comply with the recommendations of the SEC (Superintendency of Energy and Fuel).

[Jazz P Bass]

To me it sounds like a tough nut to crack.
(Keeping people off of your property)
If they are aware of the E Fence, simply bringing a thick moving blanket to drape over it will get them in.

Or two planks of wood.

[jjj]

To me it sounds like a tough nut to crack. (Keeping people off of your property) If they are aware of the E Fence, simply bringing a thick moving blanket to drape over it will get them in. Or two planks of wood.

Well, I thought of that, too: It's a 2.8m (some 9 feet) high, flat fence, crowned by military style barbed wire (i.e. galvanized Razor wire/concertina) and on the fence inside backed up with the fly catcher surprise!
So, as you see, it won't be that easy to get in without the use of a helicopter/ heavy duty, sealing drones or Isis style of explosives. That might suffice for them to encourage them seeking out an easier target.
In regard to litigation: a thief is unlikely to report having received an electric fly catcher jolt, because then he gives away his identity.
In case I heard that he fell from the fence and died I just disconnect that fly catcher and the rest is obvious that he fell from the fence, because he was either drunk or to stupid to claim the fence. Actually, it's almost impossible to climb over the razor barbed wire without being "razed", whilst juggling in that heights of 2.8 meters.

[greenmeanh1]

I use cattle prods. They work well and wont kill you but will throw you a bit. The fence at my shop is 8 feet tall steel gate with mesh welded to the frame. Its quite secure but still people may want to try and climb it. What i did is drive in a 8 foot grounding rod that is attached to the fence. Along the top of the fence i run a shock bar with spikes sticking up every one inch. As long as you don't touch the top bar you are fine and you would have to climb the fence to reach it.. The racoons used to go over all the time but since i installed the prod the have stopped completely. I have not been asked to remove it as of yet as it is pretty safe. I suppose when someone climbs it that may change.
If you want something more serious, you can make use of a flyback transformer from an old tv. It works really well but its lethal and they can arc if there is moisture around. If you want something more fun, a vandergraff generator or some tesla coils would be amazing for shits and giggles.

[jjj]

I use cattle prods. They work well and wont kill you but will throw you a bit. The fence at my shop is 8 feet tall steel gate with mesh welded to the frame. Its quite secure but still people may want to try and climb it. What i did is drive in a 8 foot grounding rod that is attached to the fence. Along the top of the fence i run a shock bar with spikes sticking up every one inch. As long as you don't touch the top bar you are fine and you would have to climb the fence to reach it.. The racoons used to go over all the time but since i installed the prod the have stopped completely. I have not been asked to remove it as of yet as it is pretty safe. I suppose when someone climbs it that may change.
If you want something more serious, you can make use of a flyback transformer from an old tv. It works really well but its lethal and they can arc if there is moisture around. If you want something more fun, a vandergraff generator or some tesla coils would be amazing for shits and giggles.

Looks very neat! Yea, I think anyone climbing in our property deserves to whatever he gets... and we ask the questions later. Better that, than being robbed, attacked or murdered by some mentally sick deviate. I like the sign I saw on a Texas range: "Trespassers will be shot and survivors they will be shot another time!" The question is: how nice do we want to be to robbers, assailants, rapists and killers? Most members in this forum prefer to protect them than me. Yes, these days murders enjoy full human rights...the very thing they denied their victims.

[g1]

The question is: how nice do we want to be to robbers, assailants, rapists and killers? Most members in this forum prefer to protect them than me.

It's unfortunate you misunderstand the concern of the forum members. Most are trying to keep you out of legal trouble, and you make it sound like they are sympathizing with criminals.
Keeping you out of trouble is still protecting you.

[jjj]

It's unfortunate you misunderstand the concern of the forum members. Most are trying to keep you out of legal trouble, and you make it sound like they are sympathizing with criminals.
Keeping you out of trouble is still protecting you.

Yes, I know... helping me to keep out of trouble, can also mean helping gangsters gaining easier access and the result will be that I (not the gangster) will be the loser. Thus, my preferred choice is to rather face the court over the death of an intruder than face death by an intruder. I reason that makes sense, doesn't it? Thus, helping me to keep out of trouble, might well be interpreted as "keeping me vulnerable to criminals"! As you see, there's much we can do to prevent criminal opportunists to gain easy access to our homes and that's exactly what I like to achieve with this secret deterrent. So, it's a matter of priority.

[g1]

I'm sorry. I thought your first post was because you were concerned how you could avoid being lethal. Must have mis-read.

[greenmeanh1]

I think whatever you install you have to take into consideration the safety of all, even the thieves. Its all about preventing crimes from happening in the first place. There is a reason my shock bar is silver and not blacked out the same as there is a reason to mount the prod in plain view and put a sign. That way everyone knows and can see it. 99.9 percent of folks would not bother screwing with it. My shop is in a dangerous area of town and i'm not always there to protect my interests. Alarms go off all the time in my hood and they are ignored. No one wants to get involved if they see stuff so the cops don't get called. I am a little more proactive than most in my community so the hard balls have some basic respect and leave me and my neighbors alone. At one point i had put up a camera with a live feed to the internet to expose the hookers and deals going down in my alley after dark. I built a website called Find Your Missing Husband and passed out cards in the hood. It worked,, the hookers and dealers disappeared within a couple of months and its been years now since i had to clean up condoms needles etc from my entrance. Went through a couple cameras though. One got shot up with a pellet gun another hit with a rock after 6 tries. I've since given up on the alley cam and just have one on my entrance so i can see. All the crack heads appear to have moved several blocks and have no interest in returning. Not one person has tried to climb the fence since i installed it.

[Enzo]

It isn't all or nothing. Putting out something short of lethal is not the same as just leaving yourself vulnerable. That is one reason police now carry tasers along with their side arms. it disables a crook without killing him.

my preferred choice is to rather face the court over the death of an intruder than face death by an intruder.

That is a false dichotomy. it sounds nice, but it defines your situation as only those two choices. It assumes that every intruder would kill you, and it assumes killing them is the only way to stop them. if you are charged with the death of some thief, after you have sat in jail or came up with a large sum of money for bail, then went through the court proceedings for a few months, and then faced an even larger bill from the attorneys, even if you are acquitted, it may not seem like such a great experience at the time.

[jjj]

It isn't all or nothing. Putting out something short of lethal is not the same as just leaving yourself vulnerable. That is one reason police now carry tasers along with their side arms. it disables a crook without killing him.
That is a false dichotomy. it sounds nice, but it defines your situation as only those two choices. It assumes that every intruder would kill you, and it assumes killing them is the only way to stop them. if you are charged with the death of some thief, after you have sat in jail or came up with a large sum of money for bail, then went through the court proceedings for a few months, and then faced an even larger bill from the attorneys, even if you are acquitted, it may not seem like such a great experience at the time.

Well, the only alternative then is to move away from dangerous areas or facing the legal consequences.
Thus, if you prefer to stay in this dangerous area be prepared and for me it is to electrify the upper top of the fence and so, protect myself. Most gangsters are physically fit and can withstand quite some jolts... and sick or physically weak people are unable to climb that high etc.
Besides, dangerous areas are known to police and courts, one has a good chance to win the case.
I remember a case (in Australia), where an old man was regularly ridiculed and molested by a bunch of youngsters... until one day the old man shot at one of them... and he got off with a warning, because neighbors in the area were standing up for him.

[J M Fahey]

Dear JJJ, what may work in Australia, which roughly follows AngloSaxon Law system, does not hold water at all in Chile or any Country which basically follows Latin/Roman/French Law system.

Here a Judge will strictly follow the letter of the Congress written Law with not much room for personal interpretation (vs. the Anglo Saxon system where earlier Judge decisions are at the core of the Law), will not find your life in immediate danger and send you to jail for Homicide, aggravated by premeditation (you set up a deadly device before any actual attack) and alevosy (you are safe in your home , away from the fence, not in immediate danger, and he can think that you set this up specially just to kill somebody)

A friend of mine had been under constant attack by a bullying neighbour and his Family , they beat him up many times ... but late at night, in the street, no witnesses so he couldn't make his denounce stick.

One day, fed up, he grabbed a .32 revolver (maximum size allowed by Law some 15 years ago) and shot him 7 times.

Mind you, the bully had attacked his Son in the street ... but although a couple neighbours saw that, nobody witnessed in his favour because of fear of the dead guy's Family (I bet your neighbours, if it's a dangerous place as you say, will side more with any local dead one than with you, who they probably perceive as a Cop friendly nose up guy) so he was arrested and charged with Homicide/Murder.

He got jailed and processed, facing 8 to 24 years in Prison, and State Prosecutor took pity of him and asked for "only" 13 years.

The bully was wanted for Homicide questioning, drug dealing, etc. while my friend was a good standing Chilean (born near Valdivia) ship repairing contractor, (remember I live in la Boca, Buenos Aires old river port district, less than 80 yards from the waterline) , the Judge told him: "friend, I'm VERY sorry, I know your history and who the dead guy was, but the Law gives me no options, I'll have to accept the Prosecutor's generous offer of 13 years" .

It took me 2 years to convince scared neighbours to testify in Court about the bully hitting his Son , his getting out of his house shouting "Son!!!! where are you !!!!! Are you in trouble?" and emptying the revolver on the bully.

So they changed the Case File name from plain "Homicide" to "Excess of legitimate defense" which carries a maximum penalty of 6 years which he had to serve anyway.

Since you can leave on good conduct with 2/3 of the full mandated years, and benefited from the Argentine "2 x 1 Law" which counts every year effectively served *before* the Court final sentence as 2 years (because he might after all, prove his innocence) , so 2 years counted as 4 and could be freed.

Do you want to risk such a fate?

Even if you are acquainted or justified, you will have to serve at least 1 year (given the Judicial slowness) .... think how your new "roommates" will treat you, knowing who you are and who you killed: they'll do their best to turn your life into Hell.

My friend told me of a nice "welcome present" offered to people perceived as "Cop friends" in Chilean Prisons: they sharpen a foot long piece of iron wire (think baling wire) and punch your gut with it, from the front, side or back, leaving it inside.

When I looked at him and said: "but that is not deadly" he answered:"it makes a needle sized hole, you don't even bleed, or very little, a few drops ... but intestines are punched through and through many times and sh*t mixes with your blood, so to avoid you dying from peritonitis, gut and blood infection 3 days later, **the Doctor** will make a fist sized (or larger) hole to pull your intestines out , wash them in sterilized water and sew every minute perforation" .

The "present" may be repeated if they wish so.

My friend didn't fare that bad because he was in an Argentine prison but mainly because the guy he killed was widely known as a Police informant and that helped him a lot, at least among his "mates".
Not sure you will be that "lucky" , suspect the contrary.

Funny thing is, a great part of his problem with the bully (I learnt about it later,otherwise I wouldn't have messed with his problem, I even gave him my Lawyer and paid quite a few Legal fees out of my pocket, which I never recovered, until I knew the real background of the problem) , was they were both in love with the same prostitute (no kidding) .

My Lawyer , when she learnt this , told him bluntly: "you destroyed your life, job, Family and future because of a hairy cunt ... which you lost ... and are now forced to fuck some hairy male ass in prison" .
All he could do was look at the floor and stay silent.

[greenmeanh1]

Even the police cannot escape the scrutiny of the legal system. Just look at all the trouble police are getting into for using excessive force. No one is above the law when it comes to taking lives. There are so many reasonable ways to protect yourself your family and your stuff. Most criminals don't really want to work very hard and tend to choose crimes of opportunity. Keep that in mind when measuring the level of threat and the logical measured response it takes to stop the crime. As i said, i live and work in a fairly dangerous area for 30 years. I am well known in my community which is made up of people from all walks of life. I help out!! Sometimes you are better off embracing your community while taking a strong stand not only to protect your stuff but to also protect your community and ALL who are in it. We are not all blessed, some folks walk a different way and will likely meet a variety of horrible fates without our involvement. Sometimes simply pointing them in another direction is enough to prevent trouble on all sides. Loving and respecting is always easier than killing.

[jjj]

Yes... I too prefer peace and quality of life, but that's only possible to enjoy if one takes all the necessary precautions. - For instance, here in St'go de Chile I need to be checking out the situation before approaching an ATM. If I see one or several chaps hanging around I give it a miss. Best location is an ATM inside a supermarket and the best time is in the morning, because thieves operate at night and are still asleep. As soon the ATM spits out the money, I fold it small in the hand, grab a shopping trolley and seek out a quite isle inside the supermarket, where I hide the bills in a secret pocket inside my clothing. In my normal trouser pocket I have a heavy wallet with small coins and three mil pesos bills. That way a would be thief will have "something to grab" ...and get away with it; leaving me the big bills. "Better seem to be poor than to be poor", is my motto! Some old people never learn and hide their money in front of everyone. I taught several older ladies how to do it. - I only hope I will never end up like them one day...

As you see my effective precautions consist rather of good timing, gimmicks and tricks, than knives, pistol, high power electric fencing etc., for thieves aren't really smart and so, it's relatively easy to outsmart them. Most of them are drug addicted and thus, money hungry.
Thus, my fly swatter electric fence is very much in line with my precaution mentality. In most cases it will suffice to persuade the thief to choose an easier target.
I have a couple more tricks up my sleeves... 1) ...to place a big speaker with recordings of a huge, vicious dog bark and as soon a thief is getting close to the door the circus starts and at the same time a solenoid activated leaver rattles the door; implying that the savage dog is desperately trying to get hold of him...
2) When I'm really old (now still only a 74 youngster) I'm going to build myself an electrified walking cane, which I attach to my wrist so, that it cannot be used against me and when a dog or human idiot tries to fix me, I'm going to offer them my cane as a bite...
I also attached my expensive Sony Cam via a thin, flexible wire onto my waist belt. If a thief snatches it why I'm filming, I'll ask him: "Where are we going to?"

[catalin gramada]

Get the biggest nails you find. Make it extremly sharp with a grinder and put each nail into a patch of thin ply. Dig you yard very finely 1 m around the fence and place those patches nails covered with fine ground. Imagine any guy who climb you fence and jump directly into the spikes