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  • Car immobilizer

    Here in St'go de Chile we sufferer daily attacks by "pistol children", hijacking cars of rich and elderly. Thus, I got to do something about it. My Nissan car electrician doesn't know much about electronics thus, I searched for a simple enough circuit, which he can understand and install.
    I found a simple enough immobilizer circuit, but I need some additional safety measures:
    The circuit shows a basic, automatic immobilizer, which stops car thieves or at least waste their time, searching for ...why the car doesn't start?
    Yet, that's not good enough, for if the thieves forced me to hand over the car's keys, I want them to get away for about 30 seconds and then the engine stops. I. o. W. I would need to add a simple delay.
    I need some idea on how to momentarily fill the electrolytic condenser, which then gradually bleeds itself out and so, allowing a couple restarts.
    I once had such a circuit, which allowed the car to start and run for about 40 seconds and then the engine stalled. The car then could be restarted and run only for about 10 seconds and the engine stalled. The 3rd time it could not be restarted anymore. That was good, because it confused the would be thief and was far enough for my safety, while I'll be busy contacting police.
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Sorry to hear criminals have fallen to such low behavior in St'go. There's car theft, stealing parked unoccupied vehicles, and I like your plan.

    There's also car hijacking, stealing an occupied car often at gunpoint. There was a rash of these crimes mostly in southern California about 20 years ago. Certainly not the only place where this happened. In South Africa 1998 somebody came up with device which might give car hijackers a second thought before they set out to commit their crimes.

    CNN - Flamethrower now an option on S. African cars - December 11, 1998

    Always carry a bag of marshmallows and some shish-ka-bob sticks. (Put devil-horn smiley thing here.)
    Enjoy. Every. Sandwich.

    Comment


    • #3
      Again, you probably want to buy an off the shelf system, there are a multitude of alarms systems with fancy features like kill switches, cell phone notifications, immobilizer systems, auxiliary (flamethrower) panic circuits, etc.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by tedmich View Post
        Again, you probably want to buy an off the shelf system, there are a multitude of alarms systems with fancy features like kill switches, cell phone notifications, immobilizer systems, auxiliary (flamethrower) panic circuits, etc.
        No alarm... I just want to keep it "lo profile" to get them some 100 yards away having engine start problems... That way I can safely call the police and possibly rescue the car. In the meantime I did a bit of pondering about it and thought up this Cap delay circuit. Please check if it makes sense:
        Attached Files

        Comment


        • #5
          some like the Clifford BlackJax 5, about $70US

          You have to enter a code every time car is started or door opened, or in ~30sec it chirps and then pulses ignition, then shuts down and blares alarms/flashes lights. 3 code tries and it just alarms, although some say pressing the code gets to be a PITA and the buttons wear out quickly.

          or maybe get the real version of this?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by tedmich View Post
            some like the Clifford BlackJax 5, about $70US

            You have to enter a code every time car is started or door opened, or in ~30sec
            Futile, for these stupid youngsters will torture me to get me to enter the correct code... Its smarter to keep "lo profile" to get them some 100 yards away from me and having engine start problems...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jjj View Post
              No alarm... I just want to keep it "lo profile" to get them some 100 yards away having engine start problems... That way I can safely call the police and possibly rescue the car. In the meantime I did a bit of pondering about it and thought up this Cap delay circuit. Please check if it makes sense:
              Well it's better than a barb wire + electric fence I guess. But there's your car 100 yards down the road right in the way of traffic, how you explain that to the gendarmes when they finally finish their doughnut break and actually arrive at the scene of the crime.

              Simple starter solenoid cutoff switch located somewhere they won't easily find it, works for me. Car thieves generally don't take time to faff around. If it isn't moving in a minute, they give up and try another car.

              edit, 5 minutes later:

              Futile, for these stupid youngsters will torture me to get me to enter the correct code... Its smarter to keep "lo profile" to get them some 100 yards away from me and having engine start problems...
              OK I see what you're up against now. And I like your plan. Just increase the time constants a little , it's "meters" all the world over, only in the USA do we drag behind the times and measure things in "yards." That was supposed to be fixed in 1975. Guess we got distracted.
              Last edited by Leo_Gnardo; 09-29-2015, 09:38 PM.
              Enjoy. Every. Sandwich.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
                Well it's better than a barb wire + electric fence I guess. But there's your car 100 yards down the road right in the way of traffic, how you explain that to the gendarmes when they finally finish their doughnut break and actually arrive at the scene of the crime.
                Simple starter solenoid cutoff switch located somewhere they won't easily find it, works for me. Car thieves generally don't take time to faff around. If it isn't moving in a minute, they give up and try another car.
                If you get hijacked at pistol point, you won't be thinking of trying to look for the solenoid cutoff switch... that's why I want to keep it "lo profile" to get them some 100 yards away from me and then having engine start problems...

                Comment


                • #9
                  The BlackJax gives you a pre-programmed time before it shuts the car off, so the thief gets fairly far away. If they're dragging you behind the car that may still not work.

                  Maybe you put in an RFID sensor (http://www.amazon.com/Door-Proximity...eigand+26+card) tied to a time delay (NC/delay on break) relay on the ignition, then put RFID cards (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01...A354EG12ECTTRA) in all of your right shoes; you're not in car, it dies in 30sec.

                  Or they chop off your feet and put them on the rear view mirror like fuzzy dice.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jjj View Post
                    If you get hijacked at pistol point, you won't be thinking of trying to look for the solenoid cutoff switch... that's why I want to keep it "lo profile" to get them some 100 yards away from me and then having engine start problems...
                    Got it, you slipped comment #6 in as I was typing #7A which would work for a theft from parked status, that's why I edited in 7B.

                    Might also power up a nice Tesla coil with output between drivers seat and steering wheel about the same time step 3 in your system takes place. Set off the airbags too why not. Give 'em hell.
                    Enjoy. Every. Sandwich.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      1) sorry to hear that.
                      I considered Chile (still do) the safest Country in America, plus Carabineros Police is famous for being tough.
                      Maybe I'll have to adjust my data a little.

                      2) the circuit drawn won't work, it's just a blackboard example to explain the basic concept, so leave it as is.

                      3) so far Tedmich got it and is closest to what's needed.
                      The proper answer is not homemade stuff

                      Ok, it *can* be homemade but I guess this is not Arduino or Picaxe (God, I'm old) or whatever microprocessor-of-the-day Forum but a real need , to be solved NOW so you should buy and install it.

                      What he referred to, a full multipurpose alarm which includes intelligent immobilization, plus the RFID cherry on the top, is the answer.
                      Which does not mean it will *sound* an alarm, just use the other tricks.
                      And it might still sound an alarm 30 minutes later

                      The cellphone calling with some code, even better including a GPS so car be quickly found is a very useful bonus.
                      Really you can not punch a code when attacked and if the car is already running with keys in the ignition the start up one won't apply either.

                      4) adding a sobering reality check: such alarms are available here in Argentina (so in the rest of the World, including Chile) , in fact I guess modern cars already include them as standard Factory equipment. (how old is your car?)
                      And if not, Insurance Companies won't even cover you if you don't add one yourself, go figure.

                      BIG problem is that thieves already know and expect them, so standard procedure is to kidnap you at gunpoint and shoot you if the car stops during getaway.


                      So least risky is (which does not mean it's *safe* ):
                      * buy and install a good commercial one
                      * if you set it to ignition cutoff, program it for at least 15 minutes, with 30 minutes even better.
                      You don't want them anywhere nearby (certainly not 100 meters away) , armed and pissed off.
                      * you might even program it for 1 hour cutoff, or only for 5 minutes delay after second restart or whatever.
                      A malfunctioning car in the middle of any street, even if blocking traffic and having to explain that to Carabineros is the least of your problems.
                      Neither fully losing your car forever, the main point is saving your Life, period.

                      FWIW local News tell me that:
                      * thieves often shoot and kill owner even if he peacefully hands keys and tells them : " ok, get it and go away"
                      They are so pumped up and paranoid that everything is "understood" as resistance and attacking back.
                      * if you regularly move in certain areas, you simply don't want a flashy car, period.

                      I shoot at a traditional Buenos Aires range, initially conceived well over 100 years ago for citizens to get proficient with standard Army issue rifles, in that case the 1891/1909 Argentine Mauser .... similar concept to the "well regulated Militia" bit included in US Constitution and for the same reason, Country defense.

                      I was puzzled by the "big mouth liars" I found there, claiming to be Bank owners, also running Shipping companies, big Scotch importers, Argentine BMW car distributors, owners of Photo shop chains, a TV evangelist, famous Doctors, Lawyers, etc. , who were dressed in average nondescript clothes, and worst of all , drove quite average cars, 2 to 10 years old, a couple of them with unfinished body repairs (say the metal already repaired, still painted in brick or grey base paint, but not finished in original car colour).

                      Well, after I got to know them better, I was even more amazed to find that they were actually what they stated and then some.
                      The "camouflage" was used because all of them had already been robbed at gunpoint, a couple even kidnapped for ransom money, and found that keeping a low profile was the first line of defense.

                      Of course they all bought guns and trained regularly (that's how we met) , but that was a distant second line of defense: "once somebody is pointing a gun at you , the last thing on Earth to do is to try to pull your own".

                      Then they showed that their "old clunkers" were that only skin deep, but not inside.
                      A few tricks they used:
                      * big powerful engines, perfectly maintained , "car must start reliably just "showing" it the ignition key"
                      * manual operated access keys on every door, plus trunk and engine cover.
                      So thieves can not smash a window with a brick at a traffic light, put their hand inside, easily open the door and get inside the car with you.
                      * best quality car tyres, often the best Michelin or Cinturato or whatever has best grip on the road under all conditions.

                      The general idea was always to be unnoticed first, be able to run away second and last some kind of armed defense.
                      And if somebody saw through home window that a burglar was opening and stealing the street parked car: "go with God, I'll buy another (or 10) tomorrow" .
                      Juan Manuel Fahey

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I like this method.

                        "Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thank you J M Fahey,

                          Chile's carabineros are doing a great job in catching criminal, but the lousy justice system puts them back into the streets... Their excuse is: we don't have enough jails! Thus, we now have 10-year old kids running wild with pistols and most criminals have 18 antecedents or more. In fact the system offers them an apprenticeship in assaulting and robbing citizens. The other day I heard of 24 criminals robbing a supermarket. - Our Bachelet is like Christina or Wilma: "useless and corrupt!" Sputum!
                          Back to work...
                          I want to keep the circuit as simple and "un-electronic" as possible, so that any car electrician understands it. Here in St'go, they not only steal your car, they also rob you of what you got on your body. Better seem poor than to be poor. That's why I sold my Nissan X-trail, but soon I'll live in tropical Australia and there buy another X-trail. I liked the immobilizer that was installed in the X-trail. Now it's gone and I thought it's easily obtainable... not so, that's why I try to figure it out myself. The only thing I like to still add is to make it sound the horn (even the starter key is removed) after the supercap is empty. It also got an override switch, in case a RLY fails. Yesterday evening, I seemed to have successfully struggled myself to an applicable immobilizer, as I want it. Please, be so kind to verify my circuit and/or amend it. Thanking you in advance.
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by jjj; 09-30-2015, 06:22 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jjj View Post
                            the lousy justice system puts them back into the streets... Their excuse is: we don't have enough jails!
                            Same here just a couple counties north of New York City. County jail is so jam packed the sheriffs have to taxi criminals back and forth from rented cells in other counties to their hearings and trials, at enormous cost to taxpayers. Sometimes it's a 300+ km round trip, with two deputies and one criminal in the car. The criminals all know judges will release them with low or no bail when they get caught rather than burden local jails. We have more police than ever, and you can count on seeing them lined up at Dunkin Donuts or hiding in some obscure location rather than "maintaining a presence" on the roads and in neighborhoods. The only things that have diminished criminal population in the nearby neighborhood are 1) buildings burnt down or collapsed or declared uninhabitable by fire/building inspector, 2) buildings taken over by service that provides discount (section 8) housing to retired blue haired grannies and their kitty cats, 3) one moron who collapsed into his own garbage fire after sickening the neighborhood with nightly burning furniture & demolition debris, apparently "approved" by fire marshal and police because they did nothing about it after complaints were received. He's gone and so are his friends. Good riddance. The game's not over though, a week ago two burglars were apprehended in the act. I wonder how many calls from neighbors it took to get the gendarmes to drop their doughnuts and actually respond. And I'll bet you half a doughnut those two are out on cheap bail right now.

                            Good video Duderino! We'll call that one Excedrin Headache # 44. Driver moved fast, he only had a second to draw when he saw the criminal approach.
                            Enjoy. Every. Sandwich.

                            Comment

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