Samson UHF Series One

[zwu]

For those with access to Samson amp schematics, any chance you could find a schematic for the discontinued Samson UHF Series One wireless mic system? (or its individual components, the UH1 handheld + the UR1 receiver + the UT1L lav)
It was OEM by Circuit Design, Inc. in Japan.

[Enzo]

Did you contact Samson and ask for it?

[zwu]

Did you contact Samson and ask for it?

Yep; no help. I guess you have to be an 'insider' with access to a certain download library, or give the secret handshake?
I even tried directly contacting their official "Senior Electronics Design Engineer" to no avail -- I'm not impressed to say the least.

[Enzo]

No, they are generally quite forthcoming with their schematics.


What frequency bands are your wireless units running on? SOme wireless mics used channels that are no longer legal to use. And so the company cannot legally support them any longer.

In fact I just looked up your model, and in fact it is no longer legal to use. The UR1 and UH1, as well as the UT1 belt pack, all operate between 801MHz and 805MHz, which is illegal. They are also not retunable to legal bands.


SO Samson cannot legally help you to use them.


The reality is that these wireless mics are low power, with a range of some 300 feet typically. So if you have working ones, chances are no one will ever know. And if you were detected using it, I can;t imagine prosecution, they'd simply notify you to stop using the gear. When your national TV system switched over to digital and the DTV revolution, the old TV channel frequencies were reassigned, and now many of those bands are used for communication for police and fire departments, and others.

Here, from the FCC:
Wireless Microphones | FCC.gov

And the look-up for brand and model, scroll down to Samson:
Wireless Microphones - Manufacturers Equipment List | FCC.gov


I don't have any files on that series in my files. I have a lot of older Samson wireless materials though.


What sort of issues are you having? WHat are you trying to fix, we might be able to get it without schematics.

[zwu]

SO Samson cannot legally help you to use them.
The reality is that these wireless mics are low power, with a range of some 300 feet typically. So if you have working ones, chances are no one will ever know. And if you were detected using it, I can;t imagine prosecution, they'd simply notify you to stop using the gear. When your national TV system switched over to digital and the DTV revolution, the old TV channel frequencies were reassigned, and now many of those bands are used for communication for police and fire departments, and others.

My thoughts exactly. The 'legality' of operating a pipsqueak 10mW TX in sub-700MHz bands is, and always has, been contingent on not interfering with any other licensed undertaking, anyway, so just because they may have reassigned the spectrum, it doesn't really change anything. Think of how many of these mics are out there with owners completely unaware of what's changed; it's not like they were recalled like defects with ownership-registered automobiles.
It's too bad with our litigious society, that manufacturers feel they shouldn't share technical documentation for obsolete products, fearing they'd be ultimately "responsible" for unauthorized usage. In my case, I'm not even in U.S. jurisdiction, and the system is used in a gymnasium that has steel roof sheathing -- not likely to radiate anything!
Among other things, I suspect a bad cartridge -- the handheld sounds tinny, but RF tests fine, and the companion lav works and sounds fine; I'm just a stickler on principle -- wish I could get a damn schematic!
You say you've had luck with obtaining Samson schematics? Could you, perhaps, try asking for this one on condition that it's for a customer outside the FCC's American scope?

[Enzo]

They can't dispense it by policy I am sure. it isn;t about them being sued, it is about jeopardizing their FCC credentials. They WILL share obsolete product drawings, they just won;t share ILLEGAL product drawings.


It is like the 19 year old kid who approaches me outside the convenience store and asks if I would buy him some beer. No, I won't, it's illegal. I have nothing against the kid having a beer, but I won;t break the law.

OK, your lav is OK so the rcvr works. I tend to agree the mic element is the first suspect. Open it up, disconnect its own mic, and clip some other similar mic element to it. How's that sound?

And if it is the mic capsule, they may still have those if they are used on other products.

[zwu]

They can't dispense it by policy I am sure. it isn;t about them being sued, it is about jeopardizing their FCC credentials. They WILL share obsolete product drawings, they just won;t share ILLEGAL product drawings.
It is like the 19 year old kid who approaches me outside the convenience store and asks if I would buy him some beer. No, I won't, it's illegal. I have nothing against the kid having a beer, but I won;t break the law.
OK, your lav is OK so the rcvr works. I tend to agree the mic element is the first suspect. Open it up, disconnect its own mic, and clip some other similar mic element to it. How's that sound?
And if it is the mic capsule, they may still have those if they are used on other products.

Yeah, I'm not entirely familiar with U.S. law, but I suspect it's not "illegal" as in direct contravention of a specific law -- consider that any wireless mic system that doesn't require an operator licence can be used only when it doesn't intefere with any other licenced operation, and if it does interfere, and the FCC directly orders you to stop, only then does it become strictly "illegal" if you chose to ignore the order. Few people understand the distinction between "legal" and "authorized", just like people think it's "illegal" to breach the terms of service, say, for Internet access; unless you outright break a law, there's no police going to show up to handcuff you, but your ISP is certainly within its rights to terminate service if you don't comply with their terms.
It's also a weird world when anyone can lookup FCC ID records that, up until a few years ago, often included product schematics, before manufacturers started submitting confidentiality requests with new FCC applications.
To be clear, I don't think I explicitly asked Samson for a schematic stating that I'm not in U.S. territory; I asked about a replacement cartridge, to which they immediately replied no longer available, gave the cliche "let me know if I can be any further help" and then opted not to answer any follow-up messages I sent about trying to find a part number for it, or cross-reference. After a lot of independent research, I'm led to believe an Audix OM5 cartridge may be a substitute.

Y'know, the funny thing is, I have access to Sennheiser's online service portal, and they didn't delete documentation for old 700MHz band systems; of course, you have to be 'priviledged' to login and download said service manuals -- so I thought maybe someone on this forum could do the same with Samson.

[Enzo]

As far as I know there is no secret special access for Samson. I have been a service center for decades. They provide schematics upon request, to me or to "civilians." I have never seen a parts list for a Samson wireless, just schematics, and on those, all it said was "mic". I just looked through my entire binder of wireless drawings.


The law says we cannot operate radio-based equipment in those RF bands. I won't get into splitting hairs over it only being illegal if you get caught, the likelihood is extremely low.

[km6xz]

What area are you operating the mics? The FCC only has jurisdiction over the US and its protectorates, so check with your local telecommunications regulatory agency and make sure it is OK. If they were legal to import in the past, they are probably still legal where you live.
Whether a license is required or not, bands are set aside for specific classes of operation and even low power emitters are not permitted to operate except in specific bands. Now, US operation of these units units in the 698-764 Mhz band, licensed or not. Every couple decades major shifts in different radio allocations occur, and for a while the bands are getting auctioned off to corporations to own.....bad idea, the whole concept of radio spectrum in the US was as a resource held in common by the people. The current thinking is that anything can be bought, from human genes to electromagnetic radiation. I suppose they will find some corporation will be interested in buying or patenting 440hz as to own it exclusively and musicians would need to license use of it.
A lot of those wireless systems are being sold on eBay for use in other countries, I see them a lot but do not have schematics for most of them. I do have the test instruments, and a Motorola Service monitor which comes in handy as a complete RF alignment and troubleshooting system with a spectrum analyzer, duplex generator, SINAD meter, deviation meter, scope, RF generator with calibrated attenuator, code generator and oven temperature controlled very accurate time base. Most of the wireless mic use a form of tone quench or dpl. The Tone Squelch on some are 32khz and others are subsonic.

[Enzo]

I hope he finds what he needs, I just wouldn;t expect anything from Samson. The FCC may not hold sway where the OP is, but does say what is what where Samson is. The schematics that Samson does publish don't identify the mic elements used. A bad mic apparently is the issue here.

[g1]

What is the actual model # of the handheld? From what I recall they used a generic in-house cartridge for these, the Q-mic.
You might find one that looks the same on ebay: Samson Q Mic: Microphones | eBay
As far as the service manual goes, not likely you will get it from Samson, maybe if you can find a service shop that has it they might let you copy it. I think the parts would also be discontinued so I doubt you would get them from Samson.

[Enzo]

He said UH-1.

[g1]

Thanks Enzo, I re-read that a couple times but still couldn't see that UH-1 sitting there .
So there were a few optional cartridges for those, the Q-mic, EV ND757 or 857, shure SM58, and a couple shure condensers. They are all listed in that manual.
Can't remember how they mounted, seem to recall some kind of adapter fitting, but a replacement of the same type should thread right in.