Mesa Boogie Bastards (next 1000 page thread?)

[nsubulysses]

I know it's not new news that the Mesa Boogie company is a pile but i saw this yesterday and it renewed my rage to tell everyone that mesa is shit and should be avoided

www.thetubestore.com - Mesa Boogie Amp Schematics

I was initially pissed that they would idiotically spec a 6.75A mains fuse which no one will ever be able to find instead of a 7A just to try to be different or interesting or something (maybe they want you to call Mesa and order a 6.75A fuse from them for $10 or something), then I started looking for schematics and found the tubestore link.

I gotta find that dual rec schematic that threatens copyright infringers that they will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law even though dual rec is a pretty shameless Soldano SLO ripoff. Fuck you 39K cold clipping stage cathode resistor that is a direct rip off of Soldano. I wish Mike Soldano would sue Mesa but he's actually just really nice and ultra supportive and forthcoming with technical info when there is a problem.

[bob p]

I'm not fond of Randall Smith's patent behavior. And I think the 6.75A fuse thing is silly, but I can't say that I agree with your rant on the takedown notice for schematics.

Sure, we all like to have easy access to schematics. But the reality is that the whole "information should be free" mindset intentionally turns a blind eye to the theft of someone else's intellectual property.

The Mesa schematic drawings are copyrighted artwork that belongs to Mesa. Mesa was upset that Tubestore was taking their property and using it to draw people into their for-profit business while giving Mesa nothing in return. They profited by stealing Mesa's artwork and using it without their permission, and that's wrong. Schematics are copyrighted artwork that is protected by law. If you run a business that is profiting by offering up someone else's property, the way tubestore was doing, then you are just asking for trouble.

In contrast, copying someone else's circuit is not illegal or unethical as long as it is not protected by patent. There is ZERO reason to be angry with Mesa for "ripping off Soldano". Soldano's circuit is not protected by patent, so anyone is free to copy it, Mesa, Bugera, whoever. Mesa's and Soldano's schematics are protected by copyright, so nobody is free to distribute them, or worse yet, to distribute them through a profit-making venture.

If you're going to hate on Mesa for copying Soldano's circuit then you might as well hate on Jim Marshall for copying the Bassman.

[bob p]

Instead of complaining that the schematics are gone, you should archive them to disk. Disk space is cheap, I don't know why people don't archive useful data when they find it, rather than hoping that it will stay online forever. We all know that links go dead. It's how the internet works. So back up good data when you find it.

FYI -- You can still get the Mesa schematics from the tubestore site that's mirrored on the Wayback Machine. Mesa isn't smart enough to give them a DCMA Takedown Notice.

[nosaj]

Instead of complaining that the schematics are gone, you should archive them to disk. Disk space is cheap, I don't know why people don't archive useful data when they find it, rather than hoping that it will stay online forever. We all know that links go dead. It's how the internet works. So back up good data when you find it.

FYI -- You can still get the Mesa schematics from the tubestore site that's mirrored on the Wayback Machine. Mesa isn't smart enough to give them a DCMA Takedown Notice.

archived and thanks for the tip

[bob p]

linkage, just in case anyone isn't familiar with Mr. Peabody's device:

www.thetubestore.com - Mesa Boogie Amp Schematics

[nsubulysses]

I'm losing my mind working on these Mesas!

[bob p]

Mesa amps weren't bad during the early days of the Mark series when the boards were simple, but by the time that the Mk IV came along the level of complexity had gotten ridiculous. Those amps were clearly designed to be sold but not to be serviced. I have never enjoyed working on them. I'll work on my own but I won't work on someone else's. The market just won't bear the actual time cost that goes into fixing them, and I don't give my time away. I feel the same way about most multi channel amps. I'd rather not deal with them so I avoid them.

[Enzo]

Part of my Mesa file was notes on identifying the model. The MArk series, each new model added a pull switch to one of the controls until they all had pull switches. And each pull switch had support circuitry behind. And all that had to fit in the same space as the first model.

I hated working on them too.

[Leo_Gnardo]

I'm losing my mind working on these Mesas!

Wait 'til you have a peek inside the Mark V or JP-2.

I lost my marbles 2-3 years ago when someone spilled their chowder inside a Mk IV. At the end I decided, no matter how much time I put into this, it's never gonna be right.

[nsubulysses]

Its' probably just best to ship it back to Mesa and let them sort it out.

They will ship it back to you in a nice box with a few pieces of styrafoam and a plastic bagged wrapped around it. It's too bad the 2nd pic was lost cuz it was really showing the carnage

https://www.instagram.com/p/BUSw_kYlD_S/

[bob p]

Wait 'til you have a peek inside the Mark V or JP-2.

It's hard to imagine that the Mark V or JP-2 could be any cleaner inside, the progression for Mesa stuff is to become more and more complicated. All hope of temperance was lost when they became a big enough company that they could afford to do CAD-based PCBs. It took the level of complexity higher. In the old days Randall Smith claimed he did all of the PCB work. I wonder if that's the case now.

I lost my marbles 2-3 years ago when someone spilled their chowder inside a Mk IV.

Spilled their chowder? I don't like the way that sounds. Yuck. I feel a sympathy puke coming on... Hold it ...

[bob p]

The problem I've had with the Mk IV as a user is that the control panel is not laid out smartly. They have silly things like quasi-isolation between Ch 1 and Ch2, where once control services both channels. They did this to conserve panel space. And the result is that an amp that was highly flexible lost some flexibility and a lot of intuitive behavior in the front panel interface. IMO that's the amp's weakest link. At least with the Mk V they have separated the controls up front by channel, which implies that they might be using distinct channels instead of component sharing and mode switching in one channel. IMO that would be an improvement.

At the end I decided, no matter how much time I put into this, it's never gonna be right.

And that's the problem. The amp becomes a constructive total because it's not cost-effective to repair it if you bill for all of your time. So you have to choose between giving away your time for free to make it right, or starting a salvage operation where things will never be the same. I try to avoid those, as I don't want to be remembered as the guy who couldn't fix the Mesa. I'd rather be remembered as the guy who wouldn't bother with the Mesa. The result is that the stores that I do service for now know better than to take them in and make promises.

[Zozobra]

A guy I know on another forum has a IV that has had multiple trips to mesa and still ain't right, which given the ticket cost and cost of shipping and repairs is pretty shitty on mesa's part. In the end he picked up a new IVb to replace it.

[bob p]

When I bought my Mk IVb long head, I got it off of ebay. It came in a flight case. It looked pristine. It was advertised by a Suhr collector (pensa-suhr on ebay) who maintained that it was in mint condition and that he only used it for worship on Sundays. I know that it sounded like a used car sales pitch, but I trusted him and bought it anyway. I got it really cheap. I thought it was a steal.

When I got it, the amp was fabulous. Brand-new looking, consmetically flawless, not a trace of dust anywhere. It still had the cardboard settings card on top. But things took a turn for the worse when I plugged in the footswitch. It got stuck in the orange channel and wouldn't switch out. Realizing that I had been screwed by someone who lied about the amp by not disclosing the footswitch problem, I opened up the footswitch.

I found that through shifting about, the footswitch LED indicator for that channel had sheared off of the PCB. All of the PCB were mounted to the case via the LED holder, and to the PCB via the leads on a short plastic standoff. Stomping directly on the LED instead of the footswitch had put pressure on the standoff/PCB connection and caused the LED to fail. It was a bad design. So I replaced the standoff with a segment of twisted pair and re-seated the LED in the footswitch and the amp was fine. I took a photo of my work and sent it by email to the seller telling him that the amp was an easy fix and I thanked him for the great deal. I'm sure that we was kicking himself over why such a simple problem led to his selling the amp at half of what it should have cost. He lied. He deserved it.

The Mesa footswitch was designed for ease of assembly, not for longevity in the field, and not for ease of service. I think the rigid standoffs were a bad design and that a flexible jumper made more sense. There are lots of little things in these amps that provide opportunities for a failure mode. I got lucky.

[Chuck H]

Modern Mesa products seem to be universally considered a PITA to work on. But that's just how it is and there are other products that are also hard to work on. So, THAT doesn't make Mesa evil. Many companies try to conceal, by many means, proprietary information. But no one is calling John Suhr or Mike Zaite evil. So THAT doesn't make Mesa evil. And, though it's been awhile since I took advantage of their customer service it's been my experience that they will freely send a schematic to a registered owner, a certified tech with a registered owner or any certified tech on request. I don't think that's being stingy with the info. Basically they just want to be in the loop. Probably because that's how they make their money!?! If you're working with Mesa then your more likely to consider Mesa. If The Trouble Store is attaching Mesa's brand to their product they are basically leeching off Mesa's long time, hard earned and generally good reputation.

And, FWIW, I too always thought Randall's patent hoarding activity to be ridiculous, but that's beside this point.

nsubulysses, did you contact Mesa and tell them you need a schematic to service one of their products? IME there's a good change you'll get it via email in an hour or two. Like I said, they just want you to work with THEM instead of some unrelated entity WRT their name and product. NOT evil.