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Thread: Behringer DDX3216 - Trying to repair, please help!

  1. #281
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    I personally don't think an ADT1616 or any other expansion card could kill the CPU as looking at the 50pin connector pin out most of them are relating to the digital audio I2S busses leading to the DSP board and power and there's only a TX/RX on pin's 40 & 42 going to the CPU,
    I'd say it's more likely a power supply issue maybe due to the increased demand's on it after fitting the card,
    is it turning on at all or even attempting to start up ?
    if it's getting as far as displaying the DDX3216 on the screen and freezing try replacing the watch crystal on the CPU board
    as stated me and EEngo unfortunately plugged in the wrong power connector into the CPU board when putting it back together and turning it on

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  2. #282
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    yes, I think you are correct.
    the most probable (and definite!) cause for a dead CPU is using the wrong power cable. I don't think there is a second way to fry a CPU in general use. As the CPU is not consuming a lot of power in normal operation, a heat-related failure is also very unlikely.

    The main problems of the DDX are still heat in the power supply (therefore failing caps, regulators and diodes in the power supply), failing caps in general (especially on the LCD board) and a swapped power connector on the CPU card after cap exchange

    I have checked with a thermal camera, but there are no heat issues with CPU or DSPs. Apart from the power supply the ADCs are running hot, too, but I have never seen a failed ADC so far.

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  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEngo View Post
    yes, I think you are correct.
    the most probable (and definite!) cause for a dead CPU is using the wrong power cable. I don't think there is a second way to fry a CPU in general use. As the CPU is not consuming a lot of power in normal operation, a heat-related failure is also very unlikely.

    The main problems of the DDX are still heat in the power supply (therefore failing caps, regulators and diodes in the power supply), failing caps in general (especially on the LCD board) and a swapped power connector on the CPU card after cap exchange

    I have checked with a thermal camera, but there are no heat issues with CPU or DSPs. Apart from the power supply the ADCs are running hot, too, but I have never seen a failed ADC so far.
    Then mine is the exception to the wrong power cable. The CPU just went dead out of the blue during a mixing session and others have had the same happening to them. Sudden death of CPU with X-mass tree lights as result. Mines also had the LCD going blank but rolling like with a bad horisontal synced crt screen. That was say 20 minutes after the unit had a used ADT1616 plugged into it and working fully! Mind you, no power cable switching or whatever involved here. When I was about to litepipe it with a Yamaha AW4416 I suddenly saw with the white of my eyes something odd happened to the DDX. And that was it.

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  4. #284
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    [QUOTE=I'd say it's more likely a power supply issue maybe due to the increased demand's on it after fitting the card[/QUOTE]

    i personally would say it's probably due to the increased demands on the ageing power supply after fitting the extra card's that was probably already on it's way out, as EEngo stated, the built up heat cannot escape from the power supply enclosure and cooks the capacitor's dry, the smoothing cap's are common resulting in increased ESR and thermal runaway as thay basically become more like a resistor in circuit made worse by increased load creating unstable/noise on the DC output that would be sending the CPU unstable mainly i'd check the 3.3vdc and the 5vdv as i'm shore they also power the expansion slot's to see if there in spec and if there's any ripple/noise/AC or increased voltage or spikes on the power supply that could be responsible,

    as i asked before, "is it getting as far as displaying the DDX3216 on the screen and freezing ?" or is the unit just totally dead ? lighting up like a Xmas tree with a black screen ?

    what makes you think the CPU is dead ?

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  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulflan79 View Post
    i personally would say it's probably due to the increased demands on the ageing power supply after fitting the extra card's that was probably already on it's way out, as EEngo stated, the built up heat cannot escape from the power supply enclosure and cooks the capacitor's dry, the smoothing cap's are common resulting in increased ESR and thermal runaway as thay basically become more like a resistor in circuit made worse by increased load creating unstable/noise on the DC output that would be sending the CPU unstable mainly i'd check the 3.3vdc and the 5vdv as i'm shore they also power the expansion slot's to see if there in spec and if there's any ripple/noise/AC or increased voltage or spikes on the power supply that could be responsible,

    as i asked before, "is it getting as far as displaying the DDX3216 on the screen and freezing ?" or is the unit just totally dead ? lighting up like a Xmas tree with a black screen ?

    what makes you think the CPU is dead ?
    DC voltages on its pins and memory chips. Not a black screen. Fixed but random horizontal lines. And sometimes (seldom) when switching off and on again you'd get a rolling blank screen as like with crt screens with bad H-sync. Then the CPU has no dc on its pins and memory pins. This indicates something is running but never I get the DDX boot screen. Oh, and that is with the CPU board neatly separated powered by a stable power supply. The CPU board is actually a classic PC board working on the classic voltages it gets from a spare PSU I have: +/- 12v, +5 v, +3v3.

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  6. #286
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    did you check the 32.768kHz crystal oscillator? some people reported problems with the crystal.
    can you check the reset circuit?

    my dead cpu (wrong power supply) was running, but resetting fast during the boot process, therefore nothing visible on lcd.

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  7. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEngo View Post
    did you check the 32.768kHz crystal oscillator? some people reported problems with the crystal.
    can you check the reset circuit?

    my dead cpu (wrong power supply) was running, but resetting fast during the boot process, therefore nothing visible on lcd.
    The 32768Hz X-tal is not the system clock X-tal. The system clock X-tal is inside the CPU as with classic PC intel CPU. This CPU exists in two versions, a 20Mhz and 30Mhz system clock version. The DDX uses the 30Mhz version. The 32768 Hz X-tal is for the RTC base inside the CPU, not the system itself. When the RTC clock fails, the CPU hangs right there and stalls with the display showing the DDX boot screen. This is not in my case. I described my case before.

    Checking the reset circuit. Nice suggestion. I may have overlooked this. The pin level should be low I suppose. I can only look into it in February. Thx!

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  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEngo View Post
    my dead cpu (wrong power supply) was running, but resetting fast during the boot process, therefore nothing visible on lcd.
    I did not know these CPU's reset themselves. I thought an external circuit feeds the reset pin. Anyway, wrong supply voltages must mess up many circuits obviously.

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  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEngo View Post
    did you check the 32.768kHz crystal oscillator? some people reported problems with the crystal.
    can you check the reset circuit?

    my dead cpu (wrong power supply) was running, but resetting fast during the boot process, therefore nothing visible on lcd.
    I'm back home after 2 months being away. While away I did have a moment to revisit the issue and thought about checking the reset circuitry. What I fell upon was that to my surprise the 32K X-tal indeed is the base on which the CPU 33Mhz is generated internally. I ordered X-tals at Ebay but they never arrived. I already had separated the XT PC circuit board of the mixer and hooked it up to a classic PC power supply using the classic voltages available and having it powered on by a jumper. This results in the exact same phenomenon but with a humid finger on the row of PLL pins on the CPU the rolling of the LCD stops and the boot image appears again. There is no reset when removing my finger off these pins, the rolling just reappears. Reapplying my finger makes the root boot appear again. It looks like an LCD refresh issue, the PLL that takes care for these signals. I added the program chips the root boot continues up to the DDX screen. Of course the other boards are not connected so it just halts there.

    I will add that I have no control whether or not the LCD rolls. That is to say when I provide the supply voltages by switching on the mixer's CPU board (which is Behringer's custom PC XT board by the way) first the static horizontal lines appear on the LCD and then I have to wait if within a minute the LCD will start rolling or not. If not there's no way to start it rolling do far. If it does then I apply damped finger to the CPU's PLL pins to make the rolling stop and see where the boot program is. That was the phenomenon from the start when everything was still assembled but I didn't realise the rolling LCD was actually still showing someting which was obviously hard to see. If the main software roms are not slotted it requests for them. If they are slotted the DDX screen appears. Only waiting for a good while before switching back on will incease the chance of having a rolling LCD after less than a minute. Otherwise the static horizontal lines stay there forever.

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    Last edited by Phoebus1966; 02-03-2019 at 03:33 PM.

  10. #290
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    sounds like an open soldering connection to me. So that one of the sync signals is not passed to the LCD.

    good luck!

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  11. #291
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    Some funny things happen here between my android samsung J5 and the site. My contents of my replies get erased when I want to edit them.

    Anyway, the CPU board problem is solved. Knocking on smd's surrounding the 32Khz x-tal got the oscillator running stable again.

    The open soldering must have had the oscillator not running stable if it did by coincidence. Capacitor value was compromised I believe. And so the PLL circuits didn't lock properly. Now the software really does run and notifies of blocked fader paths which is obvious since the CPU board is off the other boards.

    I need a power supply (for pieces). Does anyone have? I only need the transformers.

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  12. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Most of the files including firmware are available here.

    https://www.musictribe.com/Categorie...0066/downloads
    Dead wrong. All the files on the download site are the wrong ones an Behringer Support refuses to forward this to back office. They are lazy robots.

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  13. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nisse View Post
    Hi,
    So how do you replace your capacitors if you don't dismount your PSU?
    By the way, I think you have to clean your PSU-fan a bit!

    Well, does anybody know the difference between the V112.bex and V109.bex? For me it looks like V112.bex is a newer firmware, but on behringes homepage it says:
    V109.bex = Latest firmware
    V112.bex = Audio software (surround software)

    Do I need to install them both?
    How can I see the installed version(s)

    Ps.
    If anyone needs the DDXUpdate, I can share it for you.

    /Nisse
    Yes I and many others would love to have the DDXupdate V1.11 emergency tool uploaded or sent to us by email so we can upload it here.

    We also need to call Uli Behringer to alert him of the deplorable and lazy support.

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  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han View Post
    Hello,
    you also need the communication program which was written for xp so in a w10 pc you should run it as software compatible for xp, i attached the software also...
    Do you still have the DDXupdate V1.11? I need it and have asked many already. It is the stand alone emergency application which is the only possible solution on a bricked ("Invalid Program") DDX3216.

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  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Most of the files including firmware are available here.

    https://www.musictribe.com/Categorie...0066/downloads
    No they are not. The Behringer download site is a mess and Uli Behringer doesn't care.

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  16. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by EEngo View Post
    see PM
    Months ago we discussed the CPU. That got fixed. But do you have the emergency application named DDXupdate V1.11? We, me and others, needs it dire. Greets, Ben

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  17. #297
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    Hi just to make things clear, There is no such thing as a magic 1.11 DDX update file, you need to burn a new or reflash the existing one
    There is no serial port comms with a faulty OS eeprom I have the eeprom bin some where but you need a programmer to do this !
    They are pretty cheap nowadays.

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  18. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by S2udio View Post
    Hi just to make things clear, There is no such thing as a magic 1.11 DDX update file, you need to burn a new or reflash the existing one
    There is no serial port comms with a faulty OS eeprom I have the eeprom bin some where but you need a programmer to do this !
    They are pretty cheap nowadays.
    Oh yes there is an emergency tool for bricked DDX3216 mixers. PLZI.com mentions it, Nisse mentions it and others on the web also. It is a Windows application and yes it is called DDXupdate v1.11 and it is intended to be used in combination with a DDX that went bricked caused by corrupted flash memories due to an interrupted normal update. The bricked DDX is set ready by powering in on with the GROUP switch pressed. There you go

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  19. #299
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    You also belive in faries I suspect....... think about it ? and I shall explain.
    The update 1.11 is a firmware bin factory file for the basic DDX, the 1.12 update for surround sound is a file transfer update, and the only update from factory I know of that works with windows.
    Updates rely on the fact that RS232 or MIDI communications are functioning which is dependant on there being a valid OS in the main EPROM. ie 1.11
    These are flashed in factory with an OS1.11.bin file. A system backup file can then be made via RS232 or MIDI.

    If you EPROM is unreadable for whatever reason..?..
    Then you will require a valid working one, to get communications with any RS232 or MIDI device, and onboard interface....comprehenda.
    The group switch combination just sets it to factory default, It does not initiate a EPROM load, maybe you have a partially corrupted device .
    Take it from me, the system can only be reloaded,by eeprom programmer, and only updated with rs232 ,if it dont talk to windows the you are fecked.
    I take it you do have the windows DDX file transfer application 1.1f, and if so can you communicate with the desk ?!
    DO YOU HAVE A FILE EXCHANGE BACKUP ?
    I suspect not.

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    Last edited by S2udio; 05-08-2019 at 08:50 PM.

  20. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by S2udio View Post
    You also belive in faries I suspect....... think about it ? and I shall explain.
    The update 1.11 is a firmware bin factory file for the basic DDX, the 1.12 update for surround sound is a file transfer update, and the only update from factory I know of that works with windows.
    Updates rely on the fact that RS232 or MIDI communications are functioning which is dependant on there being a valid OS in the main EPROM. ie 1.11
    These are flashed in factory with an OS1.11.bin file. A system backup file can then be made via RS232 or MIDI.

    If you EPROM is unreadable for whatever reason..?..
    Then you will require a valid working one, to get communications with any RS232 or MIDI device, and onboard interface....comprehenda.
    The group switch combination just sets it to factory default, It does not initiate a EPROM load, maybe you have a partially corrupted device .
    Take it from me, the system can only be reloaded,by eeprom programmer, and only updated with rs232 ,if it dont talk to windows the you are fecked.
    I take it you do have the windows DDX file transfer application 1.1f, and if so can you communicate with the desk ?!
    DO YOU HAVE A FILE EXCHANGE BACKUP ?
    I suspect not.
    Nope, no faries. I just now pulled IC 15, 16, 17 and 18 and left IC 19 in to demonstrate that GROUP indeed is the button to engage the DDX in ready to receive mode via the RS232. This to see if I misunderstood their published experiences with the emergency app called DDXupdate. Nisse expressed clearly there is no need for a working second mixer to fix a broken one with (E)EPROM burners and he was very happy and thrilled he could use this application.

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  21. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by S2udio View Post
    ...comprehenda.
    The group switch combination just sets it to factory default, It does not initiate a EPROM load, maybe you have a partially corrupted device. ....
    Nisse's experience with DDXupdate V1.11: http://forum.ampage.org/forum.php?cmd=vp&mid=274175

    Google 'DDXupdate V1.11 ddx3216' to find the history of this application. GROUP is to engage the mixer in ready to receive data mode and no flash is necessary for that and the mixer only needs to have a working EPROM (basically PROM since without UV window) but its .bin is available online here and elsewhere.

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  22. #302
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    If anyone could help me with version 1.12 (surround sound) of the bin files of IC15 up to including IC18 (and IC19 it wouldn't harm) I'll be very glad. It is because my latest update before the mixer went down was this one. Thanks beforehand.

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