Mercury Magnetics - The Emperor's New Clothes?

[mooreamps]

Holy hell... Those look great. And the prices are sweet too. We have to get these Antek guys outta the dark and into public view so they hang around. I'm using one of their PT's for sure on my next build.

Anyone tried a toroid OT in a guitar amp yet???

I think KOC maybe using them.. I'm not sure.. I've not talked to him in awhile.. Which reminds me, I need to place another order with him to re-stock some of my supplies...

-g

[Alex R]

In conclusion when one guy pays $300 for a PT and another guy pays $79 for a PT that fits the same application and does the same job then the guy who paid more is sure that his amp sounds better. The seller will agree too. Audiophiles have know this for decades.

Yeah brand loyalty is so powerful. You buy an expensive car, washing machine, guitar, amp, then you go search out a forum and spend a lot of time on there justifying the money you spent, otherwise you get a really nasty feeling about yourself, and you bought the thing in the first place to get a really nice feeling about yourself, and so round and round the circles go.

Brands in general, however inevitable they are, are also a blight on modern life imo, but brands in component manufacturing are a particular sadness because these components are specced thoroughly and that's what should really matter. But the bright searching light of brand consciousness naturally then starts to shine on the things that don't appear in the specs, like paper bobbins and so forth,and soon the whole internet seems to believe that that stuff is way more important tonally than more traditional considerations like, whoah, that's a nice big piece of iron, and the baseless assertions kick off again. So three cheers for the guy who did the listening test.

It's all in the magic of the words they dream up. "Tone clone"? Somehow mystically better than "replacement part made to correct specifications"?

[Tom Phillips]

I once had a link to wind a high voltage toroid power transformer from a kit, but now I can't find it...:[-g

Gary,
I believe you may be thinking about the Toroid Corporation of Maryland. They sell kits consisting of a toroid core with the primary already installed and you add your own secondary windings. I have not bought a kit yet but I’ve been tempted. The kit page is a little hard to find on their web site. When I started at their home page just now I initially thought that they discontinued the kit service but they are still offered. The direct link to the kit page is Transformer Kits Datasheet - Toroid Corporation
Tom

[Steve Conner]

Winding a high-voltage toroid transformer by hand is an incredible pain in the ass. The last time I tried, I nicked the wire insulation, causing some shorted turns, while fumbling with the stupid popsicle stick "shuttle" that you wrap the wire on. I powered it up for a test and it instantly caught fire and was ruined. You really don't want to do it. If you want a DIY transformer kit, get the usual E-I kind.

The Antek transformers are fine, there are a few forum members using them. If you're open-minded enough to get round the non-vintage-correct donut shape, they're great PTs. HT windings might be hard, but adding extra heater windings is trivial, a few turns of "Romex" or similar will do it.

Not me, though. There's nothing wrong with them, it's just that the cost of shipping from the USA and import duty makes them unattractive. Big heavy things tend to get bought locally.

[mooreamps]

My own personal belief is: If you can play guitar and you have something to say to your audience, they ain't going to care about the output transformer.

That's it !!! Now, if I can only figure out how to clone the masterful left hand rhythms of Mr. Buddy Rich.. :} .. and even he was not using something as fine as my solid maple shell Craviotto...
But alas, the "Worlds Greatest Drummer" ; has left the building...

-g

[Chuck H]

That gives me a stellar idea...

Ear supplements. A special balance of vitamins and enzymes to promote ear health. Market with phrases like "You'll be able to hear like never before!", "Hear things you never knew where there!" and "Listening to music will be a new experience!" The audiophiles will gobble them up.

What's more, I can't imagine an audiophile saying "These don't work, my hearing is no better than it was." so continued sales and promotion are in the bag.

[mooreamps]

That gives me a stellar idea...

Ear supplements. A special balance of vitamins and enzymes to promote ear health. Market with phrases like "You'll be able to hear like never before!", "Hear things you never knew where there!" and "Listening to music will be a new experience!" The audiophiles will gobble them up.

What's more, I can't imagine an audiophile saying "These don't work, my hearing is no better than it was." so continued sales and promotion are in the bag.

Dude, You Rock !!!

-g

[mooreamps]

Gary,
I believe you may be thinking about the Toroid Corporation of Maryland. They sell kits consisting of a toroid core with the primary already installed and you add your own secondary windings. I have not bought a kit yet but I’ve been tempted. The kit page is a little hard to find on their web site. When I started at their home page just now I initially thought that they discontinued the kit service but they are still offered. The direct link to the kit page is Transformer Kits Datasheet - Toroid Corporation
Tom

Ya, I see that. Thanks.. If I take the plunge on this one, I'd pick up one of those German made toroid core winders, and do my own custom power transformers specific for my layouts... Ya, I know they ain't cheap.. I would have to consider doing batch runs and putting the surplus on the open market to re-coup the investment.. Something I really was not looking to getting into.. I just wanted to build amps.. :| .. Could always hire my GF to wind them for me, she does have too much free time lately... I'm sure my stuff would blow the doors off other EI core products.. "" I'd almost have to ; or am I not seeing ; for example ; a stand-alone low voltage center-tapped Toroid PT at 12.6 volts, instead of 12.0 volts ? 12.0 volts don't help me for PA filaments...

-g

[Tom Phillips]

.... If I take the plunge on this one, I'd pick up one of those German made toroid core winders, and do my own custom power transformers specific for my layouts... -g

That's a serious commitment. You may want to get a quote for the exact transformer you need from one of the transformer companies such as Antek or Toroid Corp of Maryland. On the other hand you may like the thrill and challenge of making things yourself.

[mooreamps]

I can totally get behind toroid PT's but there are some ??? for me with toroid OT's. Some good long haired reading in a few threads here indicates that toroidal OT's are especially sensitive to any imbalance in PP operation and can easily reach DC saturation. Sounds like a bad idea for guitar amps that often and typically run imbalanced. Maybe good for high end audio where your not intentionally overdriving the bejeezus out of the tubes. Anyway, might be good to search the threads to avoid some pit falls that have already been discussed.

DC balance is not the same as signal balance.. For guitar amp, it's the signal imbalance from the P/I ; or the IPA if you will ; that gives the tone some body and warmth.. But for the power tubes, the DC balance in a push/pull power amp, yes you would need adjustable bias ; and yet I know this part is not widely accepted ; when I balance my push/pull power tubes, I do tend to measure the plate current from the plate, and not the cathodes. :|

-g

[mooreamps]

That's a serious commitment. You may want to get a quote for the exact transformer you need from one of the transformer companies such as Antek or Toroid Corp of Maryland. On the other hand you may like the thrill and challenge of making things yourself.

After I wrote that, I did find a couple Antek's that would work out.

-g

[dchang0]

Chuck, you're gonna rant some more, but here you go:

Complete Ear Health

Thought you guys would get a kick outta that!

[TheTinMan]

This comment is outstandingly funny:

Then the finishing line, "Those orange drops really make this amp come alive."

Really? Through all that other crap you can tell? Better ears than mine.

I built two Princeton Reverb clones, one for myself and one for my buddy. Same cabs, speakers, resistors, caps, and very similar layouts. My friend insisted on Mercury Magnetics iron. Probably because he reads Vintage Guitar magazine. I used iron from Hoffman amps (custom ordered from Heyboer, I think). The Hoffman PT produced slightly lower voltages. Your dog may be able to hear a difference between the two amps, but it's nothing a tweak of the tone controls wouldn't fix. I think my amp sounds a tiny bit better - slightly cleaner bass - but I certainly wouldn't swear to it on a stack of Bibles.

I believe Mercury Magnetics does pretty much what they claim - attempt to copy vintage transformers as best they can. And I think they do a damn good job of exactly that.

Their marketing plan - especially pricing structure - is the key to their success. They market to end users, not amp builders. No other transformer company makes a dent in terms of name recognition among amp buyers compared to Mercury Magnetics. Their one off pricing is stupidly high. An amp builder buys 10 units and gets a nice discount. Buy 25 units (cumulatively mind you) and your cost is right in line with, or even less than, what you can get Heyboer, etc. transformers for. Put their very nice little plaque on the back of your newest model booteek amp and voila' - instant MOJO! Didn't cost you any more than alternatives, but you can charge your customer a premium for it. Your customer can see on the MM website how expensive the trannies are. They MUST be great, eh? Same goes for an amp tech replacing a blown transformer. You could put in iron from Heyboer or MM. Both cost you roughly the same. But you could charge your customer a premium for the MM replacement, and he probably would be delighted. You make more money, he brags to all his friends about his MM iron and great tech, MM sells more transformers, and everybody's happy.

Ain't capitalism great?

Cheers,

Chip

[Tom Phillips]

Very well said Tin Man.

Tom

[Chuck H]

They market to end users, not amp builders. No other transformer company makes a dent in terms of name recognition among amp buyers compared to Mercury Magnetics.

Yup. Brilliant.

Their one off pricing is stupidly high. An amp builder buys 10 units and gets a nice discount.

Yupper. Sucks.

Buy 25 units (cumulatively mind you) and your cost is right in line with, or even less than, what you can get Heyboer, etc. transformers for.

Not a chance poopie pants. MM iron still costs more. I had the chore of sourcing iron for a new amp line to be MFG'd by a big cootie in the biz and I was a little surprised at some of what I found. Not so surprising was the fact that MM iron is about twice as costly from retail all the way down the price break line. And I was dropping names to try and get a better discount. I had hoped their real world pricing would be similar so I could spec them. My sole motivation was their name recognition. I can tell you for certain that they don't give that recognition away to anyone. They know you'll sell a few more amps if you advertise Mercury Magnetics as your iron and that kind of sales advantage comes at a price. No techs are making more $$$ putting in Mercury iron either. In fact we cringe when we have to tell the client how much it will cost and sometimes we may even take a small hit to sell the work order.

I agree with all other points though.