What is the ultimate bedroom tube amp?

[surfsup]

L'il Devil

Get the Hall Amplification L'il Devil

http://www.hallamplification.com/main.html?src=%2F#2,1

[socalscott]

Love my Hall Lil' Devil 2W with VVR. Amazing TW Express tones...when too loud for the apt.. $500 and I never get to use the amazing factor. It can whisper, but for the price. meh

I've had real good low and whisper results with SS(Tech21). At these levels, tube feel and such are lost.

You'd do well to head down and sample the silly priced SS solutions. Fender Mustang III, Vox 15R Pathfinder, Tech21 30, Roland Cube. The advantage here is you can do jams as well.

[Ramsay]

How 2W is sufficient to play in a bedroom??

[Chuck H]

Again... Since ANYTHING seems to be a compromise for bedroom level why not get an amp you can use for anything and run it through an attenuator??? If the amp you use for gigs is a HotRod Deluxe will a "Lil' Devil" sound more like a HotRod Deluxe at bedroom level than a HotRod Deluxe through an attenuator??? There IS a cool factor with miniwatt amps and I will probably build one for myself some time but if I were practicing for a band at bedroom level I will more likely use the rig I'll be playing through run into an attenuator for home practice.

[guitician]

Again... Since ANYTHING seems to be a compromise for bedroom level why not get an amp you can use for anything and run it through an attenuator??? If the amp you use for gigs is a HotRod Deluxe will a "Lil' Devil" sound more like a HotRod Deluxe at bedroom level than a HotRod Deluxe through an attenuator??? There IS a cool factor with miniwatt amps and I will probably build one for myself some time but if I were practicing for a band at bedroom level I will more likely use the rig I'll be playing through run into an attenuator for home practice.

Heat!!! Here in Phoenix where it hits 100+ a lot in the summer, running my JTM45>attenuator for practice is like running a space heater.

I have a neat little 1W pedal into a very efficient 12" Altec that does everything that my JTM45 does cranked, but at conversation volumes, and I leave it on 24x7 just to reach over and play a little every time I feel like it.

[BeemerBoy]

How 2W is sufficient to play in a bedroom??

2 watts of tubes is loud . It's loud enough to damage your hearing or to get you evicted.

2 watts is 38% as loud as 50 watts.
5 watts is 50% as loud as 50 watts!

Do a search and download an "Amp volume" chart. Being able to see the numbers really puts things into perspective!

[big_teee]

I still like my 2204 with 2 Master Volumes run into a 12 Inch Celestion Vintage 30 Speaker cab.
Very controllable!
Then when you like you can plug it into the 4x12 half or full stack and let the Big Dog Eat!
B_T

[Mandopicker]

My bedroom amp...

I've got all kinds of amps and various sizes, but when it's late and I have the need to play, I use my little "gutted" Champ 600.

It's my take on a point to point 5F1. Added the rectifier tube (5V4) and a weber alnico 6", adjustable bias and it really sounds fabulous. Include a digital reverb pedal, or any other pedal for that matter and it is a blast to play. Still can get pretty loud, but just right for late night pickin'.

P.S
Used another Champ 600 I had and gutted it to put in a point to point valve Jr-style amp (EL84). Added a master volume (very nice addition), a tone control, a 125CSE, a tube rectifier and a NFB lift switch to that one. It also sounds great.

Running both together in stereo is a hoot too!

[socalscott]

Heat!!! Here in Phoenix where it hits 100+ a lot in the summer, running my JTM45>attenuator for practice is like running a space heater.

I have a neat little 1W pedal into a very efficient 12" Altec that does everything that my JTM45 does cranked, but at conversation volumes, and I leave it on 24x7 just to reach over and play a little every time I feel like it.

+1, this is a point I usually fail to bring up. I recall feeling the heat and thinking do I really need to burn-up my tubes forr a bit of wankin'.

What's that there 1W pedal, $tageHog? That's something special.

[Chuck H]

What's that there 1W pedal, $tageHog? That's something special.

I can't seem to wrap my head around what your trying to say here.

As for heat...

I don't live where an increase in room temperature is a real problem. So, duely noted.

Greater wear on power tubes with an attenuator?.. Yes. Also duely noted. Some power tubes are fairly expensive.

FWIW your amp should not run hotter with an attenuator than it does into a speaker. So I see this as a moot point. If the goal of an attenuator at low (high attenuation) settings is to be able to OD the amp more than usual then any extra heat in the amp is NOT the fault of the attenuator, but rather a consequence of the amp being driven harder by the user when the attenuator is in use.

And if "your tone" is really important price and some tiny degree of heat dissapation on the part of an attenuator should take a back seat. Example:

Your practicing a new song for a gig. You'll need to know how to get that tone on your Fender HRD. What would you practic through a miniwatt amp??? Will it somehow sound more like your tone than your stage amp through an attenuator? How many times and ways must I ask this question before it's addressed?

A miniwatt amp can't give you the info needed to apply to your stage rig for a gig. So... Since any volume reduction methode seems to have a tonal drawback, an attenuator still seems like the best, most economical choice. If it's a stage rig and an attenuator OR a stage rig, a bedroom rig, and needing to re learn what to do with my amps for a new song whenever it's only been practiced at home, well... I'll take a working rig and an attenuator.

Again, I like the notion of miniwatt amps. I will probably build one for my own. I just don't see a strong argument that makes it a better choice for a working musician over a useful stage rig and an attenuator.

[MWJB]

"Your practicing a new song for a gig. You'll need to know how to get that tone on your Fender HRD. What would you practic through a miniwatt amp??? Will it somehow sound more like your tone than your stage amp through an attenuator? How many times and ways must I ask this question before it's addressed?"

Where I live HRD come with controls that you can adjust ;-) as can a miniwatt amp (a concept that you seem to be defining as one single type design of amp, you are free to design such an amp as you wish, to do what you need). But let's take the HRD at 58W it makes 21.5VAC at the speaker, to attenuate down to bedroom levels, say 0.25W to 0.5W & 1.5VAC to 2VAC, means a 43.1 drop ratio, or 98% reduction in voltage. Your HRD isn't going to sound exactly like it does on stage with these kinds of attenation levels...either way, there are going to be differences. Most players can cope with some difference, they don't just down tools when faced with a different amp. My experience with very low powered amps is that the equation is the other way round, people want the tone, flexibility & touch sensitivity of the very low powered amp scaled up, rather than the large amp scaled down. Of the guys I know who have built them, the mini amps are the one you'd go into a housefire to rescue! :-)

You're lucky, you can practice attenuated with a reasonable sized amp without having problems with your neighbours...we're not all in that position.

A stage amp & attenuator is the most economical option...IF you already own an attenuator.

"Again, I like the notion of miniwatt amps. I will probably build one for my own. I just don't see a strong argument that makes it a better choice for a working musician over a useful stage rig and an attenuator." Well, in all honesty before I built my first one, I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly, but now it's a different story. I'd say go on give it a crack & see what you think.

[socalscott]

I can't seem to wrap my head around what your trying to say here.

Again, I like the notion of miniwatt amps. I will probably build one for my own. I just don't see a strong argument that makes it a better choice for a working musician over a useful stage rig and an attenuator.

I may have missed something, is the OP topic finished?
Now no matter what I'm doing in the bedroom, I wouldn't expect it to transfer to gig levels. That goes from git tweaks, TMB, to speakers.
Now rough settings for pedals? yeah. Rehearsal to get close? sure.
I always imagined a working musician as a very different animal than a guy looking for an ultimate or sufficient bedroom rig.

Wait now, if I mic my wittle amp maybe it would be close to good. I've got the amp and speaker still doing what it was doing at home. Oh no. lol...I kid.

[Chuck H]

Ok... All I'm saying is that, for example, with an HRD set up through an attenuator and using the channel switching, you will be able to approximate your channel levels, EQ settings, FX loop applications, etc... If you practice for your band through a miniwatt (MOST of which are simple and limited designs) you get none of that. Sheesh... You'd think I insulted the pope.

As far as the economical choice I know that building or buying an attenuator is cheaper than building or buying a miniwatt amp. The possible exception would be if your full size amp uses really expensive power tubes that your wearing down by using the amp more. In this case the miniwatter is serving to preserve your main amps power tubes. But that's the only way it could possibly be the more economical choice. I personally don't use a quad of NOS Mullard EL34's in my amp. But it's true enough that some guys do.

[MWJB]

Chuck H wrote: "If you practice for your band through a miniwatt (MOST of which are simple and limited designs) you get none of that."

Why are they limited? As you said yourself, "we mostly build amps here"...so if you were going to build a miniwatt amp why would you make it limited? You wouldn't. The other point is, that like a 5E3, you don't typically need a complex design to get versatility. How complex is your 20W design that you jam with at home?

Purely resistive attenuators are cheap enough to buy/build, however good quality, transparent attenuators, or speaker emulators capable of the levels of attenuation we are talking about are not...they are like 2-3 times the price of a Blackstar HT-1 to buy...building for yourself, then attenuators are a little cheaper than building yourself a mini-watt amp (I've just done a "cost conscious" amp build, exc. speaker & cab I'm looking at GB£139 parts-wise & £ pretty well convert to $ on that front over here.)

[big_teee]

This thread has left what the OP asked.
The question was, what amp could he use for an apartment?
Not what Amp could you Make useable in the Apartment, then go out and tour the world with.
I like a big amp that can be turned down, but that was not the original Question.
B_T