Valve amps at low volumes

[barbar13]

Hi I’m looking for some advice on valve amps suitable for bedroom practice. In an ideal world I want an amp that can produce lovely saturated tube tones at low volumes. I usually play not much louder than speaking volume(70-85db approx).

Over the past few years amp manufacturers have begun to produce simple low watt amps for recording and practice. Some like the Blackstar HT-1 produce only one watt. So are 1 watt amps quiet enough for the bedroom when cranked?

Also some amps feature attenuators allow the power to be reduced to under 1 watt such as the Vox AC-4. Do these features allow genuine tube tones at low volumes?

Any thoughts are welcome, especially from those who own such low watt tube amps. Thanks!

[kleuck]

I use mainly a VHT Special6 with a homemade attenuator, works great with the right speaker.
Stock it does not have a lot of saturation though, don't know for the AC4.

[exclamationmark]

You will still get something like 95-100 dB at 1 watt of output power depending on the speaker. Volume level and tone has always been a compromise to me, and was never really about how hard you could push the output tubes. Sure it sounds different at max volume but I think it has more with speaker/cabinet interaction than anything else (output stage distortion not withstanding). If you've ever recorded a 4x12 stack there is an obvious point where the speakers suddenly begin to excurse (ie, the cones literally start moving), even though the change in output may be only a watt or so. It changes the recorded sound HUGELY. Also, cabinet resonances tend to get crazy at high volume levels as well.

Personally, for practice I use my computer speakers! If you want high volume tones at low volumes and have a decent sound card, you always get a DAW (recording software) with VST support and get some decent guitar amp simulators running into cab impulses, and just play it through your speakers. A lot of guitar in albums are now being recorded this way. In fact the AxeFX works exactly the same way, except is a dedicated rack-mount unit. Plus it's also free. It can sometimes sound too processed though (which is actually a good thing for recording, but takes away from the actual playing experience somewhat). My back-up practice amp is a HT-5, which is pretty decent. Not bedroom crankable material, but for practice I find it good enough. As long as my amp doesn't sound like a transistor radio, I'm not too fussy on what I practice on.

[big_teee]

You might try hitting the Search button.
This topic has been covered pretty Heavy in the recent past.
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t25563/
B_T

[Steve Conner]

The amp I wrote about in that thread has become my favourite one for practice. I can wail away on it any time I want and haven't had a single complaint about noise.

I imagine the Vox AC4 would work much the same, as it is a similar circuit, a low watt SE EL84 amp with a switchable attenuator to reduce the watts even further.

Obviously it doesn't have the 30 watt boost setting that mine does, but that's not relevant to bedroom practice anyway.

Volume and tone are a compromise because of psychoacoustics. The frequency response of your ears changes with sound pressure: loud sounds appear to have boosted bass and treble compared to quieter ones, which makes them sound brighter, punchier, and generally better. (See the Herman Munster, er, Fletcher Munson curves for details )

So, if you made an amp that maintained exactly the same tone while adjusting the power output, it would still sound different (and better) at high power.

One solution is frequency compensation. Remember the Loudness button on your old Japanese stereo amp? It introduced a hefty bass and treble boost to "improve" the sound at low volumes, and a guitar amp attenuator should probably do much the same. I believe some attenuator designs do. Mine has ghetto compensation, by driving the speaker with a 24 ohm impedance, the bass resonance and treble are boosted. But I don't know whether the AC4 does anything like that.

[imaradiostar]

The best low volume practice amp is a POD or amp sim with headphones. Hate me if you want but if I have to play attenuated through a puny speaker I'd rather play with headphones.

The other option is to use an isocab with a decent mic into a preamp/console/headphone amp. That'll give you some real speaker/amp interaction without insane volume.

jamie

[Ramsay]

The best low volume practice amp is a POD or amp sim with headphones. Hate me if you want but if I have to play attenuated through a puny speaker I'd rather play with headphones.

The other option is to use an isocab with a decent mic into a preamp/console/headphone amp. That'll give you some real speaker/amp interaction without insane volume.

jamie

For my taste 1W tube amp is too low for bedroom use.
I use a Tiny Terror at 15 W (too loud volume) and the neighbors don't complain, because I live at this place a long long time and I am the guy offering free music to him.

But I only play 2 times by month.

[Chuck H]

Alas, I play about as much in a month as I used to play in a day. Perhaps less lately. But when I do play I jump the opportunity when no one is home to crank up my 20watter and just wail away. I do have an attenuator that sounds pretty good. But it's still just not the same. Can't help it. I like it loud.

As mentioned, no matter how you go it'll sound different if only because it's not loud. Not only will it sound different, but you'll hear it different, as was also mentioned.

The way I see it a pedal into an amp turned down sounds different from a cranked tube amp. And a preamp tube put into power amp duty in class A also sounds different from an AB1 EL34 amp. And an attenuator sounds different for it's own reasons, as does power scaling, a post PI master, a high gain preamp, etc...

If I have a horse in this race it's an attenuator. If only because you can get a REAL amp that can be used for gigs, etc. You'll be able to get the volume down and you won't need to change your settings much between practice and live playing volume. Even if you don't play out it's nice to own a real amp instead of a novelty amp like a miniwatt type thing. I mean, if you want the tone of a cranked up Bassman, why not use a Bassman through an attenuator? Will any miniwatt amp sound MORE like a cranked up Bassman than a cranked up Bassman through an attenuator?

The last time I raised this point I was dogpiled by the miniwatt enthusiasts. This is JMHO of course. No flames please.

[GregS]

Even if you don't play out it's nice to own a real amp instead of a novelty amp like a miniwatt type thing.

I agree. It also gives you the option of playing with a clean tone at a reasonable volume. I actually play clean more than I do with distortion but I may be unusual.

[pdf64]

Well, there is another option - a Fluxtone speaker.
I've just bought one and it's pretty damn amazing.
Using it with my AC30 currently and it's incredible to experience the full-on AC30 thing, all that interactive squish and sag that makes a cranked tube amp such a responsive beast, miniaturised down to a level that you can talk over.
I've not used it with the band yet, but turned up full it delivers the goods, even seems to be louder than greenback/blue that are in the vox cab.
I fitted a dual track post phase splitter master volume control to the AC30. I thought that sounded good, but compared to the Fluztone, it just seems flat and sterile, the Fluxtone retains the breath and chime that the MV or resistive attenuators smother.
OK, I just got it, have spent a wodge of money and self delusion may have taken over, but it really does seem to do what it says on the box.
Anyway, gotta go play.
Pete.

[Chuck H]

I was very excited about the Fluxtone product. By design it just seems like the best possible attenuator. Glad to have this review from someone I can trust. Of course you can find reviews on line, but you know how that is. Whatever you look at everybody loves it and you should buy one.