Suggestion on a speaker.

[Tone Meister]

Alan, that is precisely the reason why we calculate a safe voltage for any given speaker. I will suggest that this speaker could have been broken in already simply by following the directions given you.

Once again: 'breaking in' a speaker

[Alan0354]

I think the speaker is already close to broken in. I played it louder today and the bass seems to improve, no more of the wound tight bass drum type of "bong bong" sound. It is a bright speaker, but when I turn the treble, particular the middle down, the sound becomes better. It's is not a bad sounding speaker, much better than the Celestion G12T-75 or the G12H-100 and the Fender speaker in the Rock Pro cabinet. I just like the softer darker Utah better. That's the reason I am thinking about taking a chance on the WGS G12C/S which is a fuller version of the G12C with smoother highs.

[Chuck H]

We've all done it. I had a half dozen speakers in boxes that I barely used. We've all been through a few speakers or how else could we have opinions about them?!? I think it would be a good idea to go ahead and finish the break in process for the speaker you have so that you can at least get a feel for the difference between a new speaker and where it will end up. I hope you find what you're after without too many tries. Truth is, you can NEVER know what a speaker will actually sound like in your amp with your settings and your guitar until you install it and break it in. These facts make sound clips and plots almost useless. They also make for a lot of people who've settled before being truly satisfied. I've read accounts here of individuals buying ten speakers in their quest.

[Alan0354]

We've all done it. I had a half dozen speakers in boxes that I barely used. We've all been through a few speakers or how else could we have opinions about them?!? I think it would be a good idea to go ahead and finish the break in process for the speaker you have so that you can at least get a feel for the difference between a new speaker and where it will end up. I hope you find what you're after without too many tries. Truth is, you can NEVER know what a speaker will actually sound like in your amp with your settings and your guitar until you install it and break it in. These facts make sound clips and plots almost useless. They also make for a lot of people who've settled before being truly satisfied. I've read accounts here of individuals buying ten speakers in their quest.

You think I still need a few more hours?

I have spend some time with the speaker on my own amp now. In a certain sense, it sounds more open than the Pro Reverb with the Utah. Either I got use to it, or I got rid of the "bong bong" sound by the break in. The bass seems to be tight, but in a good way that make the bass of the Pro Reverb with Utah sounds a little sloppy!!!!

It is bright, I have to turn the treble almost all the way down to make it sound good.......The important thing is it has a good sound!!!! I am working on the tone stack to make it less bright. Maybe even add grid stop resistor to soften the sound. It is definitely American sound that I am after, none of the throaty British sound that's like in the tunnel that I dislike.

If I have to live with this speaker, I think I can make it work. But I am still considering the WGS G12C/S as it is supposed to be after the original Jensen C12N that this Eminence Legend is after, but with more fuller warmth and smoother highs. AND the most important of it all, WGS offer 30 days refund!!!! Quite a few people in the Strat talk raving about this one and think this is what I want from the description.

All and all, I think I did get what I want.....the good American sound, just need to modify my circuit to shave off the brightness. Anything that can be adapted by tweeking the tone knobs is not that bad. It would be much worst if I can't get the sound.

[Chuck H]

The speaker will continue to become less bright for a time. Go ahead and get the other speaker if you don't mind the expense. It's a great experience to hear several speakers. And even better to have a spare speaker to use in a project.

One question... Are you using the bright switch? Because if you are then the amp circuit is indeed brighter than before because the speaker is more efficient. The reason is that if your not turning the amp up as much the bright switches affect is greater. The intensity of the bright switch decreases as the volume knob is increased.

[Alan0354]

The speaker will continue to become less bright for a time. Go ahead and get the other speaker if you don't mind the expense. It's a great experience to hear several speakers. And even better to have a spare speaker to use in a project.

One question... Are you using the bright switch? Because if you are then the amp circuit is indeed brighter than before because the speaker is more efficient. The reason is that if your not turning the amp up as much the bright switches affect is greater. The intensity of the bright switch decreases as the volume knob is increased.

This is my own design, no bright switch. It's a 59 Bassman type circuit. I change to 180p on the treble cap to reduce some highs. Next, I might get rid of the CF to soften it up more. The sound just need to be soften more and will be there. I still need to put the grid stop resistor, it usually soften the sound.

I am still stewing on the WGS, but I am pretty sure I want to get it. I know it's American sound, so I can't go too wrong. The Utah sure is a little dark after hearing the contrast with the new speaker. Sometimes, you get used to the Utah's darker sound and feel it's normal. I did notice all the amps sound a little bright in the store. Maybe, my Utah is too dark!!!!

Thanks for all your help.

[Alan0354]

For the clean channel, I changed the treble cap from 470p to 180p, middle cap from 0.047uF to 0.033uF, it sure make a big difference. The amp sounds good, it does sounds different from the Pro Reverb, but I am starting to like my amp better!!! I use a A/B switch to switch between the Pro Reverb and my amp, now the Pro reverb sounds a little muddy.

If I can adjust the gain channel to adapt to the new speaker, that would be very nice. Still a working progress. I am pretty proud of the clean sound now......staring down the Pro Reverb!!!

I am still thinking about buying the WGS. Hell, maybe I can upgrade the Pro Reverb with a better speaker.

[Alan0354]

Grid stop did the trick. I even change back to the original tone stack like the 59 Bassman. Just add the grid stop from the volume output to the CC/CF stage. Beautiful.

Now, I like my amp better than the Pro Reverb with Utah in any setting. It's time to upgrade the speaker of the Pro Reverb!!!

Now if I can get the OD channel to sound good, I am done.

[big_teee]

Do you have a Vintage 30 in any of your other amps you could try?
I've never heard a V30 Celestion I didn't like?
WGS has a version of the V30 also.
But, then again I like Brit sounding Speakers, and amps.
T

[big_teee]

Grid stop did the trick. I even change back to the original tone stack like the 59 Bassman. Just add the grid stop from the volume output to the CC/CF stage. Beautiful.

Now, I like my amp better than the Pro Reverb with Utah in any setting. It's time to upgrade the speaker of the Pro Reverb!!!

Now if I can get the OD channel to sound good, I am done.

Can you be more specific on what you did with the grid stop, and where?
Not sure what Schematic your using?
T

[Alan0354]

Can you be more specific on what you did with the grid stop, and where?
Not sure what Schematic your using?
T

The clean channel is just 59 Bassman frontend. I put the grid resistor from the wiper of the volume pot before driving the next tube. I believe the original Bassman and Marshall Plexi has a 470K resistor that serve to sum the two channels together. I did not have the resistor as I don't have two clean channel to sum. Now I just add back the resistor.

I don't even have the value, I just put a 1M trim pot and adjust to what I like. I need to measure the value and replace with a fixed resistor.

I wonder whether I should put a small cap from the plate of the first stage to ground instead. The grid stop is nothing more than creating a RC pole using the input capacitance ( from capacitance of the grid/cathode plus the Miller cap from plate to grid) of the tube. That can change with different tubes.

[soundguruman]

I cannot stand the loudness!!!

Change the power amp to triode. It's easy.

The best guitar speaker is EVM.

Soaking the speaker in a good English Stout generally breaks it in quicker, and produces the preferred tone.
Why wait until somebody dumps beer on your amplifier, when you could do it under controlled lab conditions?
Are we not men?

[Chuck H]

Soaking the speaker in a good English Stout generally breaks it in quicker, and produces the preferred tone.
Why wait until somebody dumps beer on your amplifier, when you could do it under controlled lab conditions?
Are we not men?

Careful of the language barrier. I think Alan should see this as humor, but I'd rather be sure.

Still funny. And maybe a hint of truth to it. But shouldn't we choose the beer based on genre? "a good English Stout" may not be right for country pickin' or blues

[Alan0354]

Don't worry, I ain't going to dunk beer or stout onto the speaker!!! If I were to dunk beer, it would be Bud as I like American sound. Good old American and apple pie........and hamburger too!!! I'll stay with the transformer on this.

Either I got use to the Eminence, or it is doing REALLY REALLY well after breaking in. It sounds quite good. I get better sound of the OD channel with the Eminence than Utah. Too bad I don't have a reference sound for OD.The Marshall is blown, but even if it works, it sounds too crappy to serve as reference.

[Chuck H]

The reference sound for OD is in your head! If it sounds good to you, it's good. Ignore all judgments. Just think of all the great, but very different sorts of clipping sounds used by so many famous players. They stumbled on these tones and then found a neat hook or riff that they liked and TA DA, a new sound.

I think I know what you mean though. A benchmark reference for what qualifies as basically good OD tone. Well that's still in your head. You know it when you hear it just like you know when it's wrong. Don't seek perfection though. It doesn't exist. Listening to many of my favorite basic crunchy tones from recordings I often scrutinize just to stay grounded in reality. I often hear things like some flabbiness in the LF, beating and crossover distortion that sounds fizzy. But it's not in the foreground so you really don't notice. Really good players can MAKE a tone musical by exploiting the best things about it. It's always best to evaluate your tone based on the good things it does and then decide if the bad things are out of proportion or too numerous. Seeking perfection is futile. You may think you've heard other players that had something like it, but your perceptions were skewed. Listen again and just see how much of the perfection of the tone can be attributed to the players skill. Then listen to the actual tone itself. I promise that you'll hear some of the same "problems" we all deal with. Except real pro's don't hear problems like we do. Sure they have some preferences and criteria. But mostly they just hear a sound and make music out of it.