The cost of gear, some interesting data

[glebert]

I ran across this article on the original Fender Harvard amps from Vintage Guitar magazine a while ago and was thinking about the prices of amps then and now. They give the price structure of the Fender 1959 lineup as Champ: $59, Princeton: $79, Harvard: $99, Deluxe: $129, and Vibrolux: $139. When you look at those prices and see what good amps cost these days it seems outrageous how much amps cost now, but if you factor in inflation those amps were actually really expensive compared to a modern amp, especially on the low end models. Using this inflation calculator for those prices you get Champ: $500, Princeton: $670, Harvard: $839, Deluxe: $1100, Vibrolux: $1180 in today's dollars. Without getting into a macroeconomics and monetary policy fight about inflation, those Champ and Princeton amps were not at all inexpensive. Today you can get a starter amp, guitar, case, strap, and picks for $100. Now, you can perhaps rightly say that the new cheap stuff is really cheap and poorly made, but I've seen some really crappy gear from the 60's as well, so they were trying to cut costs then as well. I wonder how access to more affordable gear changes how society approaches music. More people can afford to get an instrument, but it doesn't necessarily mean that more will do something interesting with it. Maybe all of those end up in landfills instead of getting tucked into a closet for a grandkid to discover and fall in love with.

Anyway, that is my random thought for today.

Have a great Friday!
Greg

[J M Fahey]

True.
Those amps were "expensive" because they were made in USA, with USA salaries and USA made parts.
Ok, Leo relied a lot on Mexican workers, but I guess they were not "illegal" and must have received a maybe smaller salary (70 % ?) but that does not account for the huge difference.
And modern parts are made by the millions, in high speed automatic factories, and for an excellent price.

But in any case, real cost of things should be measured in "work time needed to buy them"

If a Champ costs $500 today and your salary is $4000 as a car factory worker, it cost 1/2 week.
If car factories close and you earn U$2000 at Mc D or Wal Mart, a $250 Champ still costs 1/2 week.

Just a simplified example, with made up salaries nicely divisible by 500 to show that "the number printed on a green back paper" does not tell the whole Truth.

[Leo_Gnardo]

After adjusting for inflation, at least some of the difference in prices can be explained by "hand built, ptp wired by skilled labor" then, vs "robot built PC boards, amp assembled by low-skilled, meagerly paid labor" now.

Engineering and build quality, not just amps but everything, seems to have taken a turn for the worse in the 60's & 70's. Earlier it was "build it so it won't break." Lately "build it cheap as you can" with planned obsolescence accepted as part of the deal.

Ok, Leo relied a lot on Mexican workers, but I guess they were not "illegal" and must have received a maybe smaller salary (70 % ?) but that does not account for the huge difference.

My understanding is the ptp circuit boards were stuffed 'n soldered in Tijuana, and I'll bet the workers there were paid a fraction what US workers were. Maybe a dime an hour in the 50's - 60's. At assembly in Fullerton or other LA area plants, workers likely got a "fair" wage for labor at the time say 50 - 75 cents an hour. Not unusual to find Mexican-American US citizen labor in California, as the border moved even if they didn't, Mexican Cession of 1845. Generations later they are still a perfectly legal component of California's population.

[glebert]

Engineering and build quality, not just amps but everything, seems to have taken a turn for the worse in the 60's & 70's. Earlier it was "build it so it won't break." Lately "build it cheap as you can" with planned obsolescence accepted as part of the deal.

And these are changes that were made based on market forces. People want cheap goods, and that is what they give us. People complain about "nobody makes things in the US" or "people don't build quality things" but if you ask them if they will pay more for US made or high quality the answer is almost always no.

[Enzo]

One needs to separate the mass market stuff from the pro stuff. A working musician does not buy a $99 Strat-Pak, with amp, cord and guitar PLUS gig bag. And conversely, few people buy their kid a $1200 amp head for their middle school guitar wannabee's first rig. The parents see a $99 pricetag on something they know nothing of, and they might buy it. $500 on such a kit, and they pass.

[Gnobuddy]

A working musician does not buy a $99 Strat-Pak, with amp, cord and guitar PLUS gig bag.

Unless they are a real punk band - that sounds exactly like the sort of thing true punks would do!

Most people with functioning ears would agree that the amp that comes with the $99 Strat-Pak sounds utterly awful. The guitar is probably playable, but not much fun. But I have met at least two working musicians whose guitar of choice was just a step or two away from the Strat-Pak: either a Squier Standard Stratocaster, or a Squier Deluxe Stratocaster, both somewhere in the $250 USD range at the time.

Both these Squire models have full-width necks, full-thickness bodies, excellent factory setups, and the Deluxe has good pickups, too (the Standard is a bit low-output and squeaky-clean). Both guitars are entirely adequate instruments for any good guitarist who wants something Fenderish, in the same way that a Honda Accord is an entirely adequate vehicle for anyone looking for good, reliable transportation.

Neither of those musicians had cheap solid-state amps, though...they knew better!

-Gnobuddy

[glebert]

One needs to separate the mass market stuff from the pro stuff.

Was a Champ considered "pro stuff?" Actually asking, that is quite a bit before my time. Looking at a Silvertone catalog (which I would consider "mass market") from 1959 the cheapest amp was $25, which is $212 in today's dollars.

Also, looking at the little 3 watt Teisco/Melody amp I'm working on (probably from around the same time) I don't know that the quality on the mass market stuff then was any better than stuff today. It was just a lot simpler design.

[Enzo]

glebert, I was referring to the current climate of marketing. The Champ was a good quality amp in its day. Some of that old Silvertone stuff was in cabinets made of essentially cardboard.

gnobuddy, I myself have an appreciation for ultra cheap junk instruments. I often stopped in the Kmart aisle and strummed the idiotically cheap guitars, and I am sure some garbage amp makes a real endearing tone. But those punk bands that purposely buy junk are not driving the market, they are just a teeny tiny fringe. If I buy a $40 guitar to have fun with, I can't ignore that the bass guitar I recently sold went for $2800.

[The Dude]

I'll add: Technological advancements have made it so that you can get a lower cost instrument that plays as good as something that used to be hand made. Just because it's hand made, doesn't always make it better. Of course there are exceptions. As examples, a neck formed by hand unless very skilled labor will not be any better than one formed by a CNC machine and the CNC version is much cheaper. It used to be I wouldn't buy a cheap drum set. These days with computer cut and formed shells, it's hard to get something more accurately built. My point is that, just because it's cheaper, it's not necessarily lesser quality across the board.

[Tom Phillips]

I remember picking out my first electric guitar and student amp. There was one store in town that had the Fender dealership and a couple of other stores that sold lower end brands as well as "band" instruments. The general feeling among the newbe / wannabe guitar players was that the Fender equipment was way more expensive and we didn't understand why. The $60 something champ was even smaller than the $29 no name amp. The no name amp had what looked like just as shinny chrome and even had more controls. So...most of us ended up with the no name guitar AND amp for less than the cost of just the Fender Champ and we still had enough change to buy a 15 cent McDonald's hamburger with a 10 cent coke.

[Enzo]

Brief tangent:
McDonalds - "47 cents for a three course meal"

Which was a hamburger, fries, and a shake.

[The Dude]

Three course meal = Vodka, Kahlua, Cream.

(apologies for )

[Gnobuddy]

Technological advancements have made it so that you can get a lower cost instrument that plays as good as something that used to be hand made.

Oh, I agree completely. A lot of musicians don't, though; between being right-brain-dominant, and having "you get what you paid for" drummed into them for years, many believe that the more expensive the instrument, the better it sounds. Not just when it comes to guitars, either - remember the infamous 2010 research study on Stradivarius violins that concluded modern violins were better? There's been a follow-up ( https://www.thestrad.com/blind-teste...ts/994.article ), but I'm betting 'Strads won't become any cheaper as a result.

-Gnobuddy

[Gnobuddy]

I myself have an appreciation for ultra cheap junk instruments.

I know what you mean, I strum the First Act kids acoustic guitars that end up in the thrift stores for $10 a few months after Christmas. And I have heard an African musician who brought tears to my eyes with the beauty of his music, using only his voice, and a little thumb-piano ( https://australianmuseum.net.au/mbir...iano-of-africa ).

I am not sure exactly what it was that made that man's music so moving, but it certainly wasn't the price of his musical instrument.

-Gnobuddy

[Enzo]

Four food groups:
Grease, starch, chocolate, and pickles.