New build cap question!

[axpro]

Just got my new amp project parts (most of them at least) A weber "high power" Princeton reverb.

I am going to start the project tomorrow, but heres today's big question.....

Weber stock caps
Mallory 150's
Orange drops

What caps should i use??!?! I have them all, even a few Mojo oil in paper caps. I am by no means a fender purist, just want a nice clean amp, that is kinda blackface in nature.

Opinions, arguments? Name calling?

[booj]

Weber stock caps
Mallory 150's
Orange drops

What caps should i use??!?! I have them all, even a few Mojo oil in paper caps.

I don't know what the Weber caps are
Mallory 150's are noted for thir "soft" sound
Orange drops are usually associated with a brighter "Hi-Fi) sound.
Mojo oil paper caps shoud be the bees knees.

just my .02

[JoeM]

Just got my new amp project parts (most of them at least) A weber "high power" Princeton reverb.

I am going to start the project tomorrow, but heres today's big question.....

Weber stock caps
Mallory 150's
Orange drops

What caps should i use??!?! I have them all, even a few Mojo oil in paper caps. I am by no means a fender purist, just want a nice clean amp, that is kinda blackface in nature.

Opinions, arguments? Name calling?

On my Weber kit I used the Weber caps and where I needed different values than those in the kit, I used Mallory 150s. I just like the axial leads, I dont believe you'll hear any difference unless you're one of the few blessed with Golden Ears.

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

Just got my new amp project parts (most of them at least) A weber "high power" Princeton reverb.

I am going to start the project tomorrow, but heres today's big question.....

Weber stock caps
Mallory 150's
Orange drops

What caps should i use??!?! I have them all, even a few Mojo oil in paper caps. I am by no means a fender purist, just want a nice clean amp, that is kinda blackface in nature.

Opinions, arguments? Name calling?

Since I get the same email infomercial adds from the Chinese parts vendors as Weber.. I'll venture a guess the Weber polyester caps are the same polyester caps I see advertised from those suppliers and I'd be willing to venture another bet that they are probably of the same quality as standard Asian Rim import Mallory 150s. There shouldn't be much difference in the MKT caps.
Most likely the same thing with the polypropylene caps.
O drops... well, I don't use them for much of anything but I suppose there could be someone out there that can hear a slight difference between those polypropylene or Teflon caps and other caps... probably if the others were really cheap crap and or bad caps.
'Course sock in his ears Steve says he hears no difference even if the caps are made from two metal beer bottle caps and an insulator...

[imaradiostar]

I know the cap question comes up all the time but for some reason it caught my attention this time.

I just bought a bunch of tiny (10mm spacing) Epcos caps because they're tiny and a pretty blue color...and they're cheap! I can now do tiny layouts with tiny surplus turrets and it looks neat and is easy to wire with these modern components. Of course, I can't hear any difference between these tiny modern caps and M150's and orange drops in the few circuits I've used them in so far.

I read once about a controled environment test where some golden eared persons were testing speaker cables and in the end they couldn't tell the difference between lamp cord, monster cable, and coat hangers twisted together and strung between the amp and speakers. This may be a "fish story" by now but I think the concept is true- a properly functioning cap is going to be very difficult or impossible to tell apart from another construction cap of the exact same value.

jamie

[axpro]

Thanks for the info Guys

Well for the initial build i have been using the import Mallory type that came with the kit. and despite my best intention the lead dress is sloppier than i would like. This being my first build with reverb, i'll see how it does. Truth be told, its no sloppier than many fender and traynor amps i have worked on over the years, but after seeing the work you guys regularly do, I have a MASSIVE inferiority complex!

I figured i'd build with the stock caps and see if there were spots for circuit changes. Like MOST guitar players, my "golden ears" have been dammaged from years of standing beside a ride cymbal, so it will be bigger changes (like value substitution) that make the differences that i hear. I built a few amps with orange drops and subbed in Mallorys (a whole amp worth mind you, not one or 2) and i could hear a subtle difference but it was pretty minimal and could probably be due to adjusting lead dress when installing the caps!

I think i am almost ready to fire up the project... just have to double and triple check my grounds and B+ leads.... make sure all the weird under-board jumpers are in the right places. THen it will be testing and possible sub time.

[tubeswell]

Beware if you have ELON caps in your Weber kit! There is a big to-do about these caps at the amp garage forum.

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic...er=asc&start=0

The taiwanese manufacturer was repackaging underrated (read 'improper voltage rating' as well as 'improper capacitance value') caps in bigger envelopes and relabelling them. TA Weber has only recently (in the last 2 days) become aware of it and I understand they are dumping that supplier. One way of telling is if the cap has a plastic end and one lead shorter than the other

I built a 6A14 just recent and it has one of these for the bias supply c(r)ap.

[axpro]

Well THAT was fun!

getting the amp set up this morning, getting voltages in line. and after a few minutes


FFFFFFFFFFT!!!

smoke and goo!

luckily i had another couple of caps laying around.

Grrrr.


AND a bad coppercap rectifier.

[ThermionicScott]

Beware if you have ELON caps in your Weber kit! There is a big to-do about these caps at the amp garage forum.

The Amp Garage :: View topic - More capacitor

The taiwanese manufacturer was repackaging underrated (read 'improper voltage rating' as well as 'improper capacitance value') caps in bigger envelopes and relabelling them. TA Weber has only recently (in the last 2 days) become aware of it and I understand they are dumping that supplier. One way of telling is if the cap has a plastic end and one lead shorter than the other

I built a 6A14 just recent and it has one of these for the bias supply c(r)ap.

Wonderful! I know I used some ELON caps in my 5E7 build. No hum or explosions yet, but now I have to check if any of mine have the plastic ends...

Kudos for TA for making it right.

- Scott

[Diablo]

I've got a few of the Elon caps in my builds. I have smoked a couple on the first filter coming off the rectifier on initial startup. Starting up the amp without tubes pushes the voltage pretty high, so the first cap goes. I haven't had problems with the e-caps in other positions. The latest news from Weber is that they've checked a bunch of their e-caps, and while they have caps inside the caps, they all test out within spec. I'm not sure how or if they are checking out the voltage rating on the caps to see if they're up to snuff. Recently I ordered a bunch of 600 volts e-caps with the Weber label, but I haven't had the chance to try 'em. It's tough finding e-caps with high voltage ratings at reasonable prices. The other option is to totem pole the e-caps for the first filter to get the voltage rating up there.

[tedmich]

race to the bottom

if it don't make sense... it must make money

has anyone noticed everything is getting shittier? Packaged sliced meats I've bought for years are now mainly gristle, processed chicken patties are now tough and rubbery. Where quality hasn't gone markedly down package sizes are way downsized and prices boosted (a liter if ice cream anyone? 3oz of yogurt?). The two largest mattress makers have been bought by leveraged buyout companies (like Chrysler) and are now making single sided mattresses made of thinner steel springs which can't be flipped and thus last 1/2 as long...same price. All of the quality is being sucked out of world products because way more money is to be made with imaginary money shuffling games; over $100 trillion in the derivative market alone. The world you and I live in, with jobs that make stuff so we can buy stuff, only exists on the spillover from this REAL economy. TRP's "giant sucking sound" wasn't just our Mfg. jobs flowing to Mexico, then China, its ALL the capital (real and imaginary) going to paper games.

And the Citizens United case was a shot over the bow of any politician still considering trying to mess with it. Its the Bankers/Lawyers world we just have the bad fortune to live in it. If you Tea Partyers still think the BIG Government is the problem, why did Toyota play NHTSA for a decade until GM and the US Gov merged? Nothing can or will happen unless it gets more cash to the boys at the top who play with it, its all they do 24/7.

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

Yup,
It simply costs a lot more money to make quality stuff now... a very large portion of the general public has been brainwashed into accepting complete junk and will not pay for high quality goods anymore, yet they will demand a pound of flesh for trash.
It's an instantaneous gratification world right now... especially many of the younger generation with very little patience and they want the NOW not the later.

Save up for something really good? You gotta be kidding.

[axpro]

True Dat!!!!

All the companies are leveraging themselves into a corner. for most companies, its no longer that they need to "inventa great new product" or "innovate" it's more of a "Everyone else has a small tube amp in the under $250 category... we need one TOO!!!" and products get nickel and dimed until they hit a price point, instead of a good "value/quality" ratio.

Godin guitars used to use Seymour Duncan pickups in most of their guitars... now a chinese company (i believe the one that makes Duncan Designed pickups for SD) supplies cheaper copies that "sound almost as good" for less... so they can hit a specific street price for an american/Canadian made guitar.

Godin's Art and Lutherie brand likes to advertise that they use "local hardwoods, local tonewoods" on most of their guitars. THey don't mention that it is local hardwood plywood, it is kept extra thick since it doesn't have the strength of traditional tonewoods, and they use extra heavy braces to help it stay stiff. Ending with a guitar that is inexpensive to produce, features a solid top in many cases, and a dreadnought has the same resonance as a cigar box guitar. It totally fails a quality/value ratio...but its cheap and hits a price point.


Gibson skimps on quality control. They put out complete shit in some cases, and send it out to distributors and dealers. Orange peel and laquer polish on a guitar with a $3000 street price? (canadian) Yep.

Still on Gibson, they could use quartersawn lumber for their necks without all that big of a price increase. it would eliminate the "broken gibson headstock" for the most part (I fix a LOT of gibson headstocks) not even a thought on thier minds.

Jacksons stuff from indonesia and india is frighteningly low in quality... but funny enough has spawned a new place to get SUPER low quality guitars, because a lot of the ones that don't measure up to Quality control get sold out the back door with paddle headstocks or no logos.

Now this is guitars, since that is my forte' but i see the same stuff in the amp world.

The valve junior came out, and EVERYONE had to make their own VJr inspired amp.
The Tiny Terror sold well, so now EVERYONE is scrampling for a no nonsense 20 watt stripped down head that is cheap.
CHinese made valve amps are flooding the market... not to knock the chinese, They CAN make good stuff, but when the bottom line is "cheap cheap cheap" it ends up being crap. (This is affecting more companies than i care to think of)

Amp wise, the argument is price vs features. quality never even enters the conversation

but enough of my yapping....

[Phildaman]

Hey guys, I'm new to this whole amp building thing. I'm actually waiting on a kit from Weber to arrive, and have been following this ELON cap debacle with great interest. The only thing I want to add to this discussion is that I don't really think this is Weber's fault. They are really taking heat for this problem, and they're apparently working hard to resolve their supplier issues. That being said, I am a little weary about what caps I'll be receiving.

[axpro]

Hey guys, I'm new to this whole amp building thing. I'm actually waiting on a kit from Weber to arrive, and have been following this ELON cap debacle with great interest. The only thing I want to add to this discussion is that I don't really think this is Weber's fault. They are really taking heat for this problem, and they're apparently working hard to resolve their supplier issues. That being said, I am a little weary about what caps I'll be receiving.

I didn't mean for my ranting about costs/value to be a negative about weber!

I emailed them friday night to let them k now about my parts problems, i am sure i will hear back monday or tuesday. My main beef is with companies trying to produce a finished item and market it at a specific price. from my experience, Weber buys parts, puts them in to kits and charges a little on top to make a profit. The prices change now and then based on costs. that i can agree with. Weber doesn't make THE BEST gear andkits, but they make a comlplete kit at a fair price. and there is always the option to upgrade to higher end parts (transformers/caps)

Weber has always been straight with me, sending parts as soon as i report a problem.

I have yet to really dig into the faulty cap problem, especially on other forums.... but i'll wait to see what their reply is before passing any judgement.

and hey, blowing up a cap or 2 is all part of your first builds!!!