First tube amp build: Fender Deluxe AB763 style amp (no reverb).

[mikepukmel]

Amp is all wired except for the speaker jacks (have to get to lock washers), and the 1 ohm cathode resistors on the output tubes. Wiring doesn't look very nice, fiddled with the placement a bit. Mostly newby stuff:

- I mounted the fiberglass eyelet board too high above the chassis, only because the standoffs I got were too long and hard to cut. This makes it really hard to form the wiring nicely, that leads from the back of the board to the tube sockets.
- The wire I bought is high rolling mil spec stranded. The heat handling ability of the insulation is freakin incredible. I have not disfigured one bit of the wiring while soldering, compared to the fairly weak insulation used by Hammond on their transformers. A fraction of a second too long with the soldering iron, and Im getting pretty good with minimal time to solder a wire to a lug, and it starts to melt and contract. The wire I got is harder to form than solid core, and REALLY hard to strip. I bought a high rolling no nick stripper, that works on all wire except this tough mil spec stuff. The stripper just scrapes one side of the insulation off. Had to resort to the terrible strippers I have that take 2 or 3 tries to get a good strip with no nicks.
- general "How do I do this" type stuff, not sure if wire X should be routed under wire Y or over it.
- As mentioned (whined about) a few times, the fiberglass boards from the vendor are very, very different shape than the original fender fiber board. They are much deeper (front to back of the amp) and narrower (left to right). The components are too cramped, width wise, and its much harder to route the wiring neatly especially between the board and tube sockets. Will most definitely go with a different vendor next time. Especially, the eyelets on the side of the board nearest the tube sockets need to be closer to the edge of the board. and the board further away from the tube sockets.
- Figured out a few things regarding low signal wire routing: Fender did a tight twist, and routed the twisted set that goes to the vol, bass, treble, to the corner of the bend on the brass plate, then ran the wiring to the pots up and around the pots, keeping them close to the brass plate. By the time I figured out why it was like this, I had already cut the cable too short, so its in mid air now. Might need to rewire this side of the board, if I run into noise problems.
- Routing of the signal capacitors on the board isn't ideal. The caps are over some resistors and eyelets so its going to be some pain if I need to change out the resistors to do some tinkering e.g. for a presence control.
- The only thing left to order is speaker. My brother (who is a fine guitarist) asked around and said a few of his friends suggested the Black Shadow Celestion, that is made for Mesa's. 130.00 list, some place in LA sells it. maybe try that one.

[mikepukmel]

Oops, server dupe'd the long post for some reason, sorry.

[Leo_Gnardo]

have to get to lock washers

Home Despot will sell you a pak of 10 or so for a buck & a quarter.

friends suggested the Black Shadow Celestion, that is made for Mesa's. 130.00 list, some place in LA sells it. maybe try that one.

Mesa will sell you a BS direct, why involve a middleman? Of course you will pay list & shipping. Unless LA dealer has a better deal call Mesa, but not on a Friday when they're closed and everybody goes surfing.

Before you commit, listen to as many speakers as you can, your friends' amps, at concerts & clubs, wherever. If you hear something that grabs your ears find out what it is and get one of those.

[mikepukmel]

Home Despot will sell you a pak of 10 or so for a buck & a quarter.



Mesa will sell you a BS direct, why involve a middleman? Of course you will pay list & shipping. Unless LA dealer has a better deal call Mesa, but not on a Friday when they're closed and everybody goes surfing.

Before you commit, listen to as many speakers as you can, your friends' amps, at concerts & clubs, wherever. If you hear something that grabs your ears find out what it is and get one of those.

Thanks Leo, didn't know that! Somebody sent me a link to some place on Reverb.com. I'll check out Mesa's site. I don't think it was a better price, but will check.

[bob p]

What is a Black Shadow now, anyway? I know that the Mesa BS specification changed a lot over the years. At times they sold EV speakers with Black Shadow labels on them, then they sold Celestion speakers with Black Shadow labels on them. Would it be unreasonable to suspect that they've sold Eminence speakers with Black Shadow labels on them? Have they actually done this?

Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of transparency when it comes to knowing what Mesa is currently selling as a "Black Shadow" speaker. About all I've ever been able to figure out is that at any given point in time what was sold by Mesa as a Black Shadow speaker amounted to whatever they wanted to sell under that name at the time.

I'd like to be able to find an EV Black Shadow, but I could care less about the rest. Personally, I think it's just as easy, if not better, to buy a Celestion or an Eminence driver, as you'll know exactly what you're getting. With a Black Shadow, you may not really know what you're ordering.

The upside to this mess is that an AB763 circuit will still sound good with any of these speaker options.

[The Dude]

If you're looking for the Black Shadow Celestion version, it should be the same as the Celestion Classic Lead 80- just a different sticker.

[Leo_Gnardo]

What is a Black Shadow now, anyway? - - - - Would it be unreasonable to suspect that they've sold Eminence speakers with Black Shadow labels on them? Have they actually done this?

For some period in the 80's Black Shadow was an Eminence frame with an EV cone. Now that Eminence works with EV and makes some of their speakers, an interested customer could inquire there and get a good answer as to which current Eminince model most closely resembles the "legendary" Black Shadow of the 80's.

Got a Black Shadow story. One of my customers got his back when they were the "thing to have." Got along with it for many years in his Deluxe but finally replaced it with something he liked a lot better. He could have sold it for grocery money but by then his mind/ear had changed, he really despised by then so he did a Mexican hat dance on it. That's right, stomped it into smithereens. Go figure. Hope he didn't hurt his feet.

[Chuck H]

What is a Black Shadow now, anyway? I know that the Mesa BS specification changed a lot over the years. At times they sold EV speakers with Black Shadow labels on them, then they sold Celestion speakers with Black Shadow labels on them. Would it be unreasonable to suspect that they've sold Eminence speakers with Black Shadow labels on them? Have they actually done this?

Yes, they have. The Black Shadow 10 that came in my Mesa Subway Blues was definitely a modified Eminence 1058 (if it actually was modified). A damn good speaker too BTW. Unfortunately there's no way to know that's what you'll get if you order one. Well, maybe. The guys at Mesa have always been helpful and shot straight with me whenever I've called them. Though it's been perhaps fifteen years since the last time I needed to talk to them. I hope that aspect of their customer service hasn't changed.

[mikepukmel]

Hi All,
Don't know much about it except for what is on the Mesa repair parts site:
https://store.mesaboogie.com/product...0-uk-made.html
They state fairly clearly that its a celestion custom 90. The only reason this particular speaker came up, is a friend of my brother's mentioned that he really likes the sound in his Deluxe. He's tried a bunch and ... you know. That said, he plays in NYC a lot and Im in eastern MA, so haven't heard his rig. Since its a 90w, and he's pushing it with a much lower output amp, 20 range, the tube distortion will happen w/o flapping the speaker cone around. Anyway, this one has the Celestion label with Mesa on it as well. So many guitar speakers out there, and really tough for me to find a way to listen to any of them, its going to be going by someone else's word this time around. Don't have the cash to buy 10 speakers and try them all out.

[mikepukmel]

The descriptions of the tone quality always kill me:

"...thick & robust low end ..."
"...authoritative mid-range attack and an assertive yet composed top end..."

Oooohhkayy. Is it a malt liquor or a speaker? You be the judge.

[mikepukmel]

...
Got a Black Shadow story. One of my customers got his back when they were the "thing to have." Got along with it for many years in his Deluxe but finally replaced it with something he liked a lot better. He could have sold it for grocery money but by then his mind/ear had changed, he really despised by then so he did a Mexican hat dance on it. That's right, stomped it into smithereens. Go figure. Hope he didn't hurt his feet.

Now THAT is a real musician!

[mikepukmel]

What is a Black Shadow now, anyway? I know that the Mesa BS specification changed a lot over the years. At times they sold EV speakers with Black Shadow labels on them, then they sold Celestion speakers with Black Shadow labels on them. Would it be unreasonable to suspect that they've sold Eminence speakers with Black Shadow labels on them? Have they actually done this?

Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of transparency when it comes to knowing what Mesa is currently selling as a "Black Shadow" speaker. About all I've ever been able to figure out is that at any given point in time what was sold by Mesa as a Black Shadow speaker amounted to whatever they wanted to sell under that name at the time.

I'd like to be able to find an EV Black Shadow, but I could care less about the rest. Personally, I think it's just as easy, if not better, to buy a Celestion or an Eminence driver, as you'll know exactly what you're getting. With a Black Shadow, you may not really know what you're ordering.

The upside to this mess is that an AB763 circuit will still sound good with any of these speaker options.

It seems that they're a little better than the old days, where they bought a frame with a cone and stuck their Mesa label on it. At least now, they do say what it is on their parts web site.

[Leo_Gnardo]

Hi All,
Don't know much about it except for what is on the Mesa repair parts site:
https://store.mesaboogie.com/product...0-uk-made.html
They state fairly clearly that its a celestion custom 90. The only reason this particular speaker came up, is a friend of my brother's mentioned that he really likes the sound in his Deluxe. He's tried a bunch and ... you know. That said, he plays in NYC a lot and Im in eastern MA, so haven't heard his rig. Since its a 90w, and he's pushing it with a much lower output amp, 20 range, the tube distortion will happen w/o flapping the speaker cone around. Anyway, this one has the Celestion label with Mesa on it as well. So many guitar speakers out there, and really tough for me to find a way to listen to any of them, its going to be going by someone else's word this time around. Don't have the cash to buy 10 speakers and try them all out.

Mesa's been flogging their "custom" Celestion 90W for many years now. Not much of a stretch to see they're saving some warehouse space by merging products - poof all of a sudden the 90 becomes the Black Shadow. No matter, it's a perfectly good speaker. Some years ago I asked our local reconer & all around speaker expert. He's seen what's inside and says if there's any difference between that and Celeston G-12-80 or its current name "Vintage G-80" he can't tell. I'm familiar with the G-12-80 and it's a terrific speaker. So is the Vintage 30, which can easily handle 60 watts. Whichever you can get at the minimum price including shipping, I'm sure you'll be satisfied.

And to cause further confusement, one of my customers who "has his ears on" splashed big $$$ on a Cel. "cream back" he's head over heels happy with. Is it really worth double the price of the speakers you're looking at? Who can tell without a real A/B test. There's more pie in the sky choices besides, those gold frame alnico Cel's have their fans too, those who can afford 'em.

Oooohhkayy. Is it a malt liquor or a speaker?

Since way back when I've compared reviews of stereo gear, guitars & MI gear to wine magazine reviews. Which all amount to nearly nothing. Whatever it is, you have to try it to really know.

[Chuck H]

+1 on the Vintage 30. My favorite speaker (once broken in). I think the lack of a break in period could be one reason some reviews claim it's harsh and has too much upper mids. It has upper mids to be sure, but after a good break in period it mellows a bit and there's no harshness at all.

[mikepukmel]

Mesa's been flogging their "custom" Celestion 90W for many years now. Not much of a stretch to see they're saving some warehouse space by merging products - poof all of a sudden the 90 becomes the Black Shadow. No matter, it's a perfectly good speaker. Some years ago I asked our local reconer & all around speaker expert. He's seen what's inside and says if there's any difference between that and Celeston G-12-80 or its current name "Vintage G-80" he can't tell. I'm familiar with the G-12-80 and it's a terrific speaker. So is the Vintage 30, which can easily handle 60 watts. Whichever you can get at the minimum price including shipping, I'm sure you'll be satisfied.

And to cause further confusement, one of my customers who "has his ears on" splashed big $$$ on a Cel. "cream back" he's head over heels happy with. Is it really worth double the price of the speakers you're looking at? Who can tell without a real A/B test. There's more pie in the sky choices besides, those gold frame alnico Cel's have their fans too, those who can afford 'em.



Since way back when I've compared reviews of stereo gear, guitars & MI gear to wine magazine reviews. Which all amount to nearly nothing. Whatever it is, you have to try it to really know.

Well, I see the G-12-80 for 150 (shipping included), and the infamous Black Shadow, for a little more, something like 145, some with shipping and some without, so its only up to a toss of the coin now!