Tactical Error = Setback

[Randall]

I am building my third and fourth 5E3 builds. The first two were on black fiber board, which I have swore off, and these are on turret boards. Ran out of internal star washers for the jacks and pots, so I pre-wired four pairs and set them aside. Got amp number 3 almost all done, except for jacks and pots. Everything else works and measures out nice. Today I finally get a box of star washers, and when I go to install the jacks, oh no!

The bottom ones are bumping right up against turrets. Ordinarily, jacks are one of the first things I would have installed, so had I not had to wait for washers, I would have seen this problem early on and planned around it. That board is all wired and screwed down, with everything nice and tight and neat. The idea of disturbing all that nice work is painful. however, when I have a fresh head, I will try to see if moving the standoff holes about 3/8" is possible without disturbing the wiring too much.

But here's what I don't get... this is a chassis kit from a known vendor, and it came with the standoff holes pre-drilled in the chassis. I don't see how it could work with the holes being where they are, wouldn't they know this?

Another thing, the tip of the input jack is closest to the turret that connects the .1 mF cap with volume pot wire in both cases. Is this an issue?

[mac dillard]

could it be that you are not using the same type of jack that the chassis was pre drilled for?

[Randall]

I highly doubt that. A 1/4" plug is a standard length, since when this amp was designed in the 50's. Switchcraft jacks are what i am using, the industry standard forever.

[loudthud]

The problem is that the standoffs are too high. The original 5E3's board was mounted to the chassis with a bare board sandwitched between for insulation. How long are the standoffs? The 5E3 chassis is very tight, not much room for any changes.

[Randall]

The standoffs are 3/8", plus the red swirl board, plus the height of the turrets. the kit came from Triode.

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

You asked, "who wouldn't know this?"... my answer is, probably someone who has never built their own kit... just sayin'! LOL
... adding... that's another reason why turret boards shouldn't be used in tweed Fender clone type amps.
They whole idea of using turret boards instead of eyelet boards with an insulation board under it....is classic... "don't fix something that's not broken."

[Randall]

hey Bruce, hip me to fiber/turret vs. tweed/blackface? I'm using turret boards this time around because I had a terrible time with black fiber board in a AB763 build. It conducted with humidity and caused problems. Ended up having to tear out a perfectly good build and build it up again on garolite. However, two 5E3's I built on fiber before these two are very quiet. I guess I don't really understand when and why to use either material?

[Leo_Gnardo]

hey Bruce, hip me to fiber/turret vs. tweed/blackface? I'm using turret boards this time around because I had a terrible time with black fiber board in a AB763 build. It conducted with humidity and caused problems. Ended up having to tear out a perfectly good build and build it up again on garolite. However, two 5E3's I built on fiber before these two are very quiet. I guess I don't really understand when and why to use either material?

I'm not Bruce, and haven't stayed in a Holiday Inn for many a year BUT I avoid black fiber board entirely and recommend the same to all. How do you know when you get a good piece, and when not? After your misadventure Randall, and others besides, I consider the stuff poison. Sorta the fugu of amp building. I'm not willing to take the chance.

Now I know there are eyelet boards built on better material (epoxy fiberglas etc), have exactly that in my old Alembic F2B, but does anyone make these to order or do we have to build our own? Bruce - there's a question for ya! And anyone else who may have an answer.

[Tom Phillips]

Randall,

How much additional clearance do you bed to create?
Some ideas are:
1) Remove the standoffs and install a 1/16" thick piece of insulating material, such as glass epoxy PCB board, under your turret board and screw it down like Fender did with the black boards. Slide it in the long way from the PT end of the chassis to minimize wiring that would need to be disconnected to do the installation.
2) Re-configure the input jacks so that only two of the four are "real." That is, wire only the two #1 jacks (Those farthest above the board) and make two fakes to fill the #2 holes by cutting off the contacts at the rear of the jacks so that they don't interfere with the board. This is just to preserve the vintage look.
Edit 3) If you do #1 and there is still interference from one or 2 turrets then you could cut the tops off of those turrets so they are just short nubs. You could also replace those turrets with eyelets but that's getting into more involved surgery.

Do you have photos of the build you can post?

Tom

[Randall]

I was able to move the board south by re-drilling the chassis holes 1/4" below the pre-drilled holes. I didn't have to remove any wiring this way.

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

I'm not Bruce, and haven't stayed in a Holiday Inn for many a year BUT I avoid black fiber board entirely and recommend the same to all. How do you know when you get a good piece, and when not? After your misadventure Randall, and others besides, I consider the stuff poison. Sorta the fugu of amp building. I'm not willing to take the chance.

Now I know there are eyelet boards built on better material (epoxy fiberglas etc), have exactly that in my old Alembic F2B, but does anyone make these to order or do we have to build our own? Bruce - there's a question for ya! And anyone else who may have an answer.

My 5E3 boards are laser cut from black G10 1/16" sheet material and I personally install every single brass eyelet by hand. I burnish every eyelet on the board with a medium "grit" scotch brite pad before shipping (easier soldering when super clean) and there is no such thing as "tweed disease" with G10....

[Leo_Gnardo]

My 5E3 boards are laser cut from black G10 1/16" sheet material and I personally install every single brass eyelet by hand. I burnish every eyelet on the board with a medium "grit" scotch brite pad before shipping (easier soldering when super clean) and there is no such thing as "tweed disease" with G10....

There's the answer Randall - gotta "be like Bruce". Of course you can pick your color for G10. Black is beautiful, but since we "should" be listening not looking really doesn't matter much.

Thanks for the answer Bruce and I'll be looking forward to doing much the same.

[wyatt]

I highly doubt that. A 1/4" plug is a standard length, since when this amp was designed in the 50's. Switchcraft jacks are what i am using, the industry standard forever.

Have talked to a few people who found the Triode kit isn't fool-proof.

Most I see using turret boards for 5E3 use Cliff jacks, but the fact that turrets make tweeds really tight fitting is pretty common knowledge. The G10/eyelet combo is king. Many find eyelets easier to work with than turrets anyway.

As for Switchcraft being the industry standard...standards have slipped. I've had to return so many poorly made Switchcraft jacks in the last several years (most seemed to have lacked heat-treating), I refuse to use them anymore...now it's UK-made Cliff's or Neutrik.

[Leo_Gnardo]

As for Switchcraft being the industry standard...standards have slipped. I've had to return so many poorly made Switchcraft jacks in the last several years (most seemed to have lacked heat-treating), I refuse to use them anymore...now it's UK-made Cliff's or Neutrik.

Haven't had any problems with Switchcraft - ever. I get 'em from Conquest only. Is it possible you've been delivered counterfeits? There's fake just about everything out there. Transistors too. Ebay dealers and small time jobbers might not know, or if they do, caveat emptor. If a deal's too good - it possibly isn't.

[ReadyTeddy]

There are certainly are lots of fakes out there. A few years ago I bought what I thought was a nice Sony stereo mic from ebay--turned out to be a fake. Visually, it was a good fake; performance-wise it wasn't.