Orange drops or Mallory 150s in 5E3 build?

[g1]

Yes, I've seen that one before though I would caution that it is only in a passive circuit with no voltage applied. So, if we're looking for effects similar to those I mentioned before, akin to what RG found with carbon comp resistors, that would not show up in a test like this. But maybe that point is moot.
Anyway, I'm going to step aside from this one now, but my final remark is that there are also people who are 100% absolutely certain that different tubes of the same type can not possibly sound any different, even with variations in tolerance.
I think anyone who subscribes to the theory for caps, should also subscribe to the same argument for tubes.

[octal]

Seems like an "apples and oranges" argument to me. Different tubes of the same type can have real measurable differences in gain, linearity, noise, microphonics. You can make arguments about how perceivable those differences might be but they are definitely objectively real. There are no measurable differences at audio frequencies between good quality coupling caps of the same value. It's possible to set up a differential amplifier to compare a signal passed through two different types of coupling caps matched in value, feed a real guitar signal in, and what you're going to get out is a null. There are so, so many variables in guitar amp design that make real differences in tone- circuit topology, EQ, speaker selection, bias, output transformer type, operating voltages etc. that obsessing over something which is "to the right of the decimal point" even in ultra-audiophile home audio amps seems downright silly.

[Jazz P Bass]

As to the Atlantic Design article, I was impressed at the insistence of actually measuring the capacitor values.

[The Dude]

Reading this thread, I couldn't help but think of a post by one of our "former?" members.

"How do you think these silver mica caps became so popular? Because of me.
I found that I could get less noise by using them. That was 30 years ago.
Why do you think so many distributors are selling them for guitar amps? Because of me.

I started the trend, so blame me exclusively. I'm guilty as charged.
I am the ONE who did it. I put the idea in motion."

[cyclone]

You've been around for a while and you've watched the trends of complete stupidity that accompany anything involved with art. We are on the back side of that trend with music, kids don't GAF about tone, they just make their music, kind of like Hank Williams didn't care, Elvis didn't care, they just showed up. Virtual Bassman is now reality Bassman and it really doesn't matter what the real thing sound like because virtual is the real thing

[cyclone]

Don't get me started on carbon comp. There's one discussion of importance with regards to resistance and it's noise. And cost, if you are in the business of giving away fine amplifiers The rest is "voodoo electronics" LOL

[Justin Thomas]

...kids don't GAF about tone, they just make their music... Virtual Bassman is now reality Bassman and it really doesn't matter what the real thing sound like because virtual is the real thing

Til I show up with Reality Bassman and they scratch their heads and go, "THAT'S what it's supposed to sound like? Wow, that's WAY better!" Of course, Reality Bassman also costs about 6x as much $$$... And kids're not too fond of schlepping around heavy gear, lazy bums... And, even the kids tell me my "old crappy" amps are "too loud!" Whiny brats...

"Damn kids & their music..."
All in good fun, here... agree, they don't care about tone (at first). They just wanna make noise and express themselves. Just like as in most fields, some are better at it than others...

Justin

[Chuck H]

And kids're not too fond of schlepping around heavy gear, lazy bums.

My first amp was a Peavey Bandit 65. Not as impressive as some in the weight department, but still heavy for a skinny twelve year old. I use to call it the "wrecking ball" because of the way it took out door casing and furniture when swinging from my arm

And it's so true about hearing the real deal. Once you've heard it, it's impossible to unhear. I've seen the light go on more than once for a kid hearing a real tube amp for the first time. I still remember when it happened to me. Good times.

[Chuck H]

Reading this thread, I couldn't help but think of a post by one of our "former?" members.

"How do you think these silver mica caps became so popular? Because of me.
I found that I could get less noise by using them. That was 30 years ago.
Why do you think so many distributors are selling them for guitar amps? Because of me.

I started the trend, so blame me exclusively. I'm guilty as charged.
I am the ONE who did it. I put the idea in motion."

So, did you have to dig that up or are you keeping a file of some kind? That, right there, epitomizes our guy like nothing else you could have presented. Reading it at the time it didn't seem as strange because he was known. Reading it now, out of the context of his proximity, it's mind blowing.

[guitician]

We are on the back side of that trend with music, kids don't GAF about tone, they just make their music, kind of like Hank Williams didn't care, Elvis didn't care, they just showed up.

I'm sure glad that the people making all the gear in those days did! Or, maybe it was just their electronic artistry.

[The Dude]

So, did you have to dig that up or are you keeping a file of some kind? That, right there, epitomizes our guy like nothing else you could have presented. Reading it at the time it didn't seem as strange because he was known. Reading it now, out of the context of his proximity, it's mind blowing.

Nope,......no secret file. My hard drive isn't big enough to house all of his hot air. I remembered the post and had to use the search function to find it. FWIW, I posted it to sort of highlight the futility of this thread- no dig on anyone at all. The "which cap is better" argument has been going on forever and I expect it will continue to do so. I'm sort of in the g1 camp wherein both arguments have merit. There are many things to consider besides capacitance, i.e. ESR, microphonics, etc. That said, I'll add:
1) From a builder's standpoint, I would think consistency, reliability, and cost would be more important than any miniscule tonal differences.
2) Let's assume that there are resultant tonal differences between capacitor types. Is it better, worse, different, is it enough to matter?
3) From a repair standpoint, if I find a defective cap and I don't have, for instance, an orange drop in stock but a ceramic of the same value, I have no problem using it. And, in all my years of doing this, never once has a customer come back and said that his amp didn't sound right or sounded different.

[Justin Thomas]

3) From a repair standpoint, if I find a defective cap and I don't have, for instance, an orange drop in stock but a ceramic of the same value, I have no problem using it. And, in all my years of doing this, never once has a customer come back and said that his amp didn't sound right or sounded different.

This about sums up my take... I don't use ODs because Mallorys are about 1/2 to 1/3 the size and look "classier" to me. ODs look "cooler," though, with their bright orange cases. But Mallorys also have the values clearly stamped on them. I don't wanna thjnk by what factor of ten I might be off of when building...

But, thank SGM, I also have silver mica caps to use as brite caps, and thankfully he was so successful in his promotion of his discovery that it's the only composition I can get in low pF values!

Justin

[guitician]

Heck, if your making a vintage Fender, then use vintage fender replacements!
Pure Vintage ?YELLOW? Amplifier Capacitors | Fender

[Tom Phillips]

Heck, if your making a vintage Fender, then use vintage fender replacements!
Pure Vintage ?YELLOW? Amplifier Capacitors | Fender

Good grief! What BS. At least the price is not as high as Gibson's Bumblebee fakes.

[guitician]

http://music-electronics-forum.com/t33773/