Still no break-up. 2x 5F1's.

[Sea Chief]

The 5F1 circuit in my book shows this too. But my 5F1 (and most I see including later maybe fenders) has the cathode bypass caps already.

[Sea Chief]

Yeah I am sure wavepad has a tone generator built into that package. NCH software is the company or something, so try this out... NCH Tone Generator - Free download and software reviews - CNET Download.com

It does indeed. And I can open the page (with lots of note tabs on) and add an E and make it go oooooooo... but I havent a flamin clue what Im doing it for!

[Chuck H]

Sea Chief,

Are you using a meter with a digital display or a needle display?

[Sea Chief]

Sea Chief,

Are you using a meter with a digital display or a needle display?

Digital Im afraid. Id love one of those analogue ones- spensive tho.

[Sea Chief]

That 30Vac grid figure will most probably distort.

For sure, the strumming 12Vac will not.
There is simply not enough drive signal to slam the output tube into distortion.

Seeing that this is NOT a Fender issued product & simply a cobbled together creation, I truly believe that you are tilting with windmills.

Play the thing, add a boost pedal & call it day.

I think ''cobbled together" is being a bit sniffy JazzP. Its actually pretty well made, with good components, and a beautifully made replica chassis. And a damn nice pine cabinet too if I may say so.

I take your point that I seem to have come to the end of the road with it; no Im not going to add pedals for that was exactly -not- the point. But I do feel defeated and its a shame so many have helped but I haven't got anywhere really.

I will remove the feedback resisitor maybe as a last go (I guess I shift the wire physically below this 22k up to above it, at the btm of the 1.5M resisitor? or am I cutting the link/ lifting the 22K and leaving a gap?). Next time I'll go for a pure clean amp with reverb/ no distortion design: they dont seem to agree with me.

Thanks Sea Chief.

[Chuck H]

Then the 30V read should be somewhat nominal. Though some cheaper meters will show a peek near peak

Let us know when you get the signal generator figured out.

[Dave H]

I will remove the feedback resisitor maybe as a last go (I guess I shift the wire physically below this 22k up to above it, at the btm of the 1.5M resisitor? or am I cutting the link/ lifting the 22K and leaving a gap?)

Just disconnect one end of the 22k. That's all you have to do.

I think it is working as a 5F1 should be but it is just not the amp for you.

[Justin Thomas]

My only thought was: if the grind at 9.5-10 (12?) is good, maybe it's a linear taper volume pot?

Of all the Champs and Champ-like amps I've played, the only one I'd use is my 79 SF that I hacked into a Vibro-Champ. I played a tweed Champ with the slanted chassis (actual Champion 600), the new Champion 600, a few Champy-like amps, and a 66 BF. I found all of them to be strident, and way too clean up until they were completely dimed, and even then it took "full whackage" to get anything out of them. The bass farts if the speaker is stock, but just very unflattering to my Tele, which has anDuncan 5-2 in the bridge and Alnico 2 Pro in the neck - not w high-output guitar. The 66 BF was decent, but still clean to about 5. The clones and "inspired bys" were mostly thin, hollow, and weak in the volume department. The Kendrick clone was okay, but not complementary to my guitar.

My SF just has a woolliness about it, at almost every setting, and does a pretty good roar with the tone controls set up right. But it's got a 30W speaker, has been mostly rebuilt, and has the "crazy" ~430 B+ with modern wall voltages. I think the 6V6 is pretty beat, too, which may account for some of the wool...

Oh - I disconnected the feedback on mne, and it was Fuzz City! Not exactly in a good way... but try it anyway.

Agreed - may not be the amp for you. Try a SF in a bigger speaker, if you can...

Justin

[big_teee]

The 5F1 circuit I have shows both 12AX7 cathode resistors unbypassed and it has output stage negative feedback. I'd disconnect the feedback and bypass both cathode resistors with caps. That would make it overdrive for sure.

This looks logical to me.
Drive the preamp harder, use bypass Caps, and Tune the preamp bias.
T

[Sea Chief]

Agreed - may not be the amp for you. Try a SF in a bigger speaker, if you can...

Justin

Im -far- from being able to choose whether the amp is tailor-made for me. Blimey, thats a pipe dream. This is not an exercise in tone per se at all as Im so far back/ still so firmly on pg1 (even after 140 posts). I'm still simply trying to get -any, any at all- distortion. It matters not -for now- whether the distortion is 'vintage', 'raspy, 'fluke-superb' or anything whatsoever. It is simply a test (its hardly even a useable amp) just to try and get -any- distortion. Anything.

(Once I get over this pg 1 hurdle............................................. THEN.................................................... ............. I might be in a position to A) try to understand why, B) start to change things to suit -IF- it the distorted sound is any good).

To suggest 'why not just try an SF in a bigger spkr' is completely nonsensical. I have not even a fraction of the money available to do this at the prices they are.. that's why folk's build amps! I think youre just wanting to tell me anout your original SF Champ. I dont want to know thanks.

[Sea Chief]

This looks logical to me.
Drive the preamp harder, use bypass Caps, and Tune the preamp bias.
T

But it has bypass caps.

[big_teee]

But it has bypass caps.

Is this your schematic, I don't see any Cathode bypass caps?
http://el34world.com/charts/Schemati..._5f1_schem.pdf
If it is not please give me a link to the correct schematic.

[Sea Chief]

Just disconnect one end of the 22k. That's all you have to do.

I think it is working as a 5F1 should be but it is just not the amp for you.

No it cant be. If I can turn it nr all the way and it stays clean- it is not working as a 5F1 should.

It is also 100v too high, which I was hoping to have had an answer as to why/ what can I do to get it down etc/ what is the result of having an amp so high, should it not be played and needs attn 1st or what? but I guess thats not going to happen.

Again the exercise is not a Q of whether a 5F1 is the amp for me. Im not in such a position to be choosy. If it distorts, then --at this stage/ call it my 1st amp and Im 17 yrs old if you want-- it is the amp I want. Even if it sounds like sh*t, I dont care at this stage whatsoever! but it should distort. And it should do at approx vol 5 or 6. Not at vol 9.5.

[Sea Chief]

Im back at square 1. Im grateful for replies but it seems I havent progressed in 6 pages if Im still describing my simple predicament again.

Ok I must assume the reason for no break up with this amp2 is connected to the 90v-too-high reading. There seems to be nothing else thats 'wrong' with the amp, so it makes logical sense to assume the two must be connected/ there have been no other avenues explained.

Can someone tell me- how do I get this 90v-too-high reading down? If I can Id put a wager on that this will get the amp to perform as a 5F1 should do).

Thanks, SC.

[big_teee]

That is a very simple circuit.
There are a variety of champ layouts, with and without bypass caps.
I would experiment with it until I got the sound I liked.
You can experiment with the preamp bypass caps, and resistors.
You can experiment with the 6V6 Bias.
Change the preamp B+ voltage levels.
With and without the Feedback resistor.
try different speakers if you have any laying around.
Like mentioned make sure you have a 1 meg Audio volume pot, not linear.
Beat on it, that is what I would do.
GL,
T

http://el34world.com/charts/Schemati...a764_schem.pdf
http://el34world.com/charts/Schemati..._5e1_schem.pdf
http://el34world.com/charts/Schemati..._5f1_schem.pdf