Sveltana Wing-C tubes out of production

[Justin Thomas]

Stoohpid cancel button!

I was trying to not get all personal about it... but if you want to gobble up all the names with their good reputations, you should gobble up all the machinery, paperwork, and <HUMAN> capital (experience, R&D, creativity, pride in product) too! Mr. Man has had his hard times too, but he should stick to his own brand instead of what's been going on. Let the past go gracefully and stand for what it is, and let these companies die with their good names intact. Names on paper are cheap - it's what's behind that name that counts!

[nickb]

I hate to be all controversial but I guess I'm just not very good at taking things at face value. I asked a Russian friend to call the factory. She did and they told her that all except possibly EL34s are still in productions.

I also understood that the US distribution may be being taken over by a division of pmcomponents (from the UK), possibly still under negotiation.

[km6xz]

Justin, that is precisely what I was thinking but you put it into words. There was a reason Tung-Sol and Mullard and others had strong reputations are for points that are totally absent in the new tubes with that label stuck on them. Mullard made the best low voltage rectifier, Tung-Sol developed the 6550 and RCA was a technology powerhouse that developed QC programs that and systems that are still copied today in IC production. Svetlana developed the metal ceramic tube in the 30s although there was also a similar technology in Germany by 1939. Those and the Nuvistor were some of the last significant advances in tubes. You can rest assured that the gold plated box $400 300B tubes coming from China are not the result of any breakthrough or even any serious thought.
One thing that went away, when integrty flew away, was the concept of a fixed bias that could be set at the factory for a piece of equipment and any 6L6 from the major 20 brands operating in 1965, would work the same. That was because RCA maintained specs carefully and companies could be sued or have their license revoked if they did not keep the parameters of their tubes closely aligned to the definition of the "6L6". The only reason a cross licensing agreement was offered on popular patented tubes was to have reliable second sources so equipment manufacturers would feel confident committing a product design around parts was if they had multiple viable sources. Just like today, patents are bargaining chips to get access to technology of competitors who want your breakthrough or market leading technology. Regardless of how often two cell phone makers end up in court suing for billions they are still rational enough to seek cooperation on cross patenting of important technologies. When Google bought the extensive patent library of Motorola, people in the popular press claimed it was because it was so Google could go into phones. They never had go into hardware, they had dozens of providers for hardware, the blue chips were the patents, some very old, that allowed bargaining with companies that had patents they wanted access to. Motorola invented the cell system, a spin off from the Trunking system developed in the 70's, so you know they had some fundamental patents that could be quite handy in bargaining with other companies.
"Same as it ever was" RCA was the Google of the 30s-60s. Western Electric /Bell Labs was the Apple of the 20s-50s with more influence.

By the way, to out do tube brand name craziness, the rights to Western Electric 1920s and 30s tubes have surfaced in Alabama. Get what factory direct new WE-308 tubes cost for a matched pair? $4200.00, or their little RF preamp glass tube(similar in performance and size to the 6j6) from the 50s, 417A which we got for a couple dollars in the 50s and 60s and thought was highway robbery: $550 each

[Justin Thomas]

Nick,

I hope you're right...

Justin

[km6xz]

Why not call the factory yourself to find out. They are selling off remaining stocks which were very low, I could not get a quad of 6550s the last time I visited 2 weeks ago when I was told they were out and, for the second time, that production had been halted. They said they had 3. I have been dealing with them for years, directly at the factory.

PM sought the distribution for metal ceramic tubes, the market they were in. That's why PM would never answers queries about glass receiving tube sales.

[bob p]

Some of you working on high voltage amps or needing solid 6550s or KT88s should stock up on any spares your distributor has because Svetlana(the real one, not Sovtek/New Sensor), the longest operating producer of vacuum tubes, has halted production of glass tubes and is selling off little remaining stock. Some types are already out of stock.

Have you heard anything further about this? I got a sales call from CEDist today about their May tube sale, so I asked them about availability of SED receiving tubes. Tony told me that SED has stopped production of the KT88, but he says that they're still making the 6550, EL34 and 6L6.

Anyone making a robust 6550 or KT88?

My VT-100 has SED 6550 in it and I've had no problems with them. But then I don't drive it like its an SVT.
I have friends that are using the EH 6550 in audio amps and they've never had any complaints. Several; years ago AudioResearch had switched from SED to EH (or from EH to SED, can't remember which). I don't remember hearing any complaints in the audiophile arena about either one.

My experience with the JJ 6550 has been good in MI amps.

[Possum]

This stuff is really sad to me, when I grew up you could buy tubes everywhere, the local drug store was where you usually went to get new tubes for your radios. I just discovered the Winged C 6L6's and amazed that a modern tube could actually sound this good. In my pioneering work on reverse-engineering vintage PAF's (which others seem intent on taking credit for....) I put alot of focus on the metallurgy of the 40's up and thru the late 70's. Steel making changed noticeably thru those times, the older material was much cruder than whats being made now as all those technologies have vastly "improved." Its one reason US made alnico sounds nothing like vintage alnico, because they use aerospace methods; Chinese are still using very crude methods so we can still get decent vintage style alnico from them, plus their tubes are getting better and better, thankfully. I am sure that is one reason modern tubes will never sound like a vintage tube will, because metallurgy in all its form was less advanced in those old days. This also applies to transformers, because not only the iron in them, but also the copper wire. I did alot of lab work thru a major magnet wire company and learned how wire made, all the processes etc. vintage wire was less pure than modern wire, plus the insulations they used aren't the same exact material as used now, they used highly toxic chemicals to make that stuff which is regulated against now. As a pickup designer, we are lucky to even have plain enamel magnet wire being made at all now, same as we are lucky to even have any tube makers left, there was a time when it looked like tubes were going to disappear forever. Anyway, the cruder technologies are what gave us more "musical" sounding materials, the modern super clean high tech methods make for harsh sterile tones.....

[Steve Conner]

I don't know if that is true in guitar pickups, but it's probably an oversimplification in tubes. I was reading the other day about the 5-layer explosion-welded plate used in the 5881. Copper in the middle for heat transfer, a layer of steel on either side to resist warping, and finally outer layers of pure nickel for low secondary emission, or whatever nickel does. The process for making it was developed by Texas Instruments and licensed to Tung-Sol.

I just can't see any modern tube maker going to all that trouble.

[bob p]

Has anyone heard anything definitive on whether SED is/is not halting all glass receiving tube production? A couple of months ago I was told by CE Dist that the only discontinued item was the KT88. I'm wondering if it's related to the glass envelope's shape.

[defaced]

I don't know if that is true in guitar pickups, but it's probably an oversimplification in tubes. I was reading the other day about the 5-layer explosion-welded plate used in the 5881. Copper in the middle for heat transfer, a layer of steel on either side to resist warping, and finally outer layers of pure nickel for low secondary emission, or whatever nickel does. The process for making it was developed by Texas Instruments and licensed to Tung-Sol.

I just can't see any modern tube maker going to all that trouble.

Is that paper freely available? I'd like to read it. Explosion welding is super cool stuff, and fills an interesting void in the bonding technologies spectrum.

[daz]

I was so disappointed when i first heard about this, winged C being my fav 34 easily, and what i used in my marshall style homebrew. But i am now a happy man ! I started using 6L6 in my amp recently and not only do they sound quite a bit better, but after trying winged C 6L6, JJ 6L6, and a couple others, i find JJ's sound the best in this amp ! Thrilling to be because i usually hate JJ's, but here i am happy as a clam with one of the cheapest and always available 6L6's out there ! Couldn't be luckier the way i see it. I've even been back to visit winged C EL34 land a couple times since using 6L6 just to see if i still feel the same, and each time i can't rip those 34's out of the amp fast enough ! The tone with 6L6's, especially the JJ's is harmonically richer, smoother, and cleans are much better. And they are 1/2 the cost of the C's. Every so oftern some tube i love goes the way of the dinosaur. Luckily JJ's have been around longer than all of them combined. Thanks lord.....bout time ya threw me a bone when it comes to tubes !

See ya Winged C.....don't let the door hit ya on the way out !!!

[Steve Conner]

Mike, it's discussed in this thread:
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t33747/

The 5-layer plate is described in US Patent 3,112,185 and the process for making it is in US Patent 2,691,815. Oddly it doesn't mention explosion welding.

[defaced]

Thanks, Steve.