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1984 Legend A30 Series II Power Transformer Question...

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  • #16
    1) if possible, build a lamp bulb limiter (search it), you can make one even with an old desk lor night table lamp, using a 40W to 75W old type filament lamp, not a modern CFL , although you can use one of these: because they still have a filament inside.
    Plug your amp there, the light should glow dull red or orange; if it shines with full intensity, the short is confirmed.
    If not, just once use a 2A slow blow and try it for the last time; if it blows junk the transformer; if not, carefully measure secondary voltages.
    I suggest you safely tape all extended wires to a piece of wood or tabletop so you can measure them without holding them in your hand.

    2) if dead, start searching for a replacement, you'll roughly need an around 80VA transformer (larger is acceptable as long as it fits in the chassis cutout), with secondaries:
    * 12 or 12.6 VAC @ 500mA
    * 17+17VAC (18+18 is acceptable and somewhat easier to find) @ 1.5 or 2A
    now this is a tough nut to crack:
    * 200+200VAC (+/- 10/15%) @ 10mA or more.

    3) if absolutely unavailable, you can use 2 transformers , but they won't fit the existing hole, to boot you'll probably find a toroid for the main one.
    * 18+18VAC 1.5 to 2A
    * 12VAC @ 1A
    +
    * 220VAC to 12VAC , 0.5A to 1A , which you will use reversed, fed from 12VAC, to get 220VAC NOT centertapped, so you will need to add 2 extra 1N4007 to complete a bridge rectifier and get roughly +300VDC for the tube HV supply

    Check Mouser, Hammond and ??Antek??? or similar, which have lots of tasty toroidal transformers at very good prices.
    Juan Manuel Fahey

    Comment


    • #17
      If you still decide you would rather have it rewound, shop around. I'm pretty sure you could get it done for less than the MM $175.
      Originally posted by Enzo
      I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by J M Fahey View Post
        1) if possible, build a lamp bulb limiter (search it), you can make one even with an old desk lor night table lamp, using a 40W to 75W old type filament lamp, not a modern CFL , although you can use one of these: because they still have a filament inside.
        Plug your amp there, the light should glow dull red or orange; if it shines with full intensity, the short is confirmed.
        If not, just once use a 2A slow blow and try it for the last time; if it blows junk the transformer; if not, carefully measure secondary voltages.
        I suggest you safely tape all extended wires to a piece of wood or tabletop so you can measure them without holding them in your hand.

        2) if dead, start searching for a replacement, you'll roughly need an around 80VA transformer (larger is acceptable as long as it fits in the chassis cutout), with secondaries:
        * 12 or 12.6 VAC @ 500mA
        * 17+17VAC (18+18 is acceptable and somewhat easier to find) @ 1.5 or 2A
        now this is a tough nut to crack:
        * 200+200VAC (+/- 10/15%) @ 10mA or more.

        3) if absolutely unavailable, you can use 2 transformers , but they won't fit the existing hole, to boot you'll probably find a toroid for the main one.
        * 18+18VAC 1.5 to 2A
        * 12VAC @ 1A
        +
        * 220VAC to 12VAC , 0.5A to 1A , which you will use reversed, fed from 12VAC, to get 220VAC NOT centertapped, so you will need to add 2 extra 1N4007 to complete a bridge rectifier and get roughly +300VDC for the tube HV supply

        Check Mouser, Hammond and ??Antek??? or similar, which have lots of tasty toroidal transformers at very good prices.

        Thank you for the very thorough breakdown on the PT needed...

        I am going to put together the lightbulb limiter tonight and give it a test that way...and/or try it with the 2A Slo-Blo...

        I really appreciate the response to this!

        Comment


        • #19
          This is not an endorsement. I have no personal experience with these folks. I have heard good things. It might be worth a call.

          Transformer Rewinding Service
          "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

          Comment


          • #20
            FWIW, I have the same situation with a dead PT in a Legend A30. I don't recall who it was but someone here pulled their secondaries for me and gave me the voltages as read from his amp. red-white-red 435 VAC, blue-white-blue 36VAC, yellow-yellow 12VAC. I haven't had time to try to locate a replacement yet. Hope this helps.

            Comment


            • #21
              Just found the thread. http://music-electronics-forum.com/t38149/

              Comment


              • #22
                I'm still not convinced that you have a bad transformer or at least a "salvageable" one. Here is what I would do. First, take a bunch of pictures of where all of the wires from the transformer hook up in the circuit so there will be no trouble putting it back. Then I would completely remove the transformer. With the transformer removed meter out all of the leads. Use a different meter if you have one. One that isn't auto-scaling if possible. Make sure you measure for shorts from primary to secondary and from any winding to the iron. If the primary is truly open, take it apart. See if anything looks amiss. If there is a thermal fuse there measure it. If open jumper it and insulate the repair. I stress this is what I would do for something I own for my use. When I do this I usually add a pigtail fuse external to the transformer on the primary. I've resurrected many a piece of equipment for personal use this way and would never do a customer repair this way. I only have done it in an emergency or when the unit is not worth the cost of a new transformer for personal use. It isn't great practice but it does work sometimes. Be aware that you may have other problems that killed your transformer in the first place. Especially with a 30 year old unit that has been setting and been previously repaired.

                Comment


                • #23
                  using the bulb limiter test the bulb flashed out and it popped the fuse on the furman power conditioner...

                  in 2 seconds the transformer got is warm to the touch and smells overheated. I have it out of the amp and on a bench...

                  I removed the top bell cover to inspect the leads and to see if there was some mysterious thermal fuse tucked in there...there is not...

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by The Dude View Post
                    This is not an endorsement. I have no personal experience with these folks. I have heard good things. It might be worth a call.

                    Transformer Rewinding Service

                    Thank you for this recommendation...

                    I sent him an email. I am hoping to have it rewound since finding an aftermarket replacement with the known secondary voltages will be difficult at best...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by lovetoboogie View Post
                      using the bulb limiter test the bulb flashed out and it popped the fuse on the furman power conditioner...

                      in 2 seconds the transformer got is warm to the touch and smells overheated. I have it out of the amp and on a bench...

                      I removed the top bell cover to inspect the leads and to see if there was some mysterious thermal fuse tucked in there...there is not...
                      It's bad!

                      The thermal fuse, if it went open circuit, would prevent any current from flowing.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Another possible rewind or replacement source would be Edcor Transformers. They tend to be the most reasonable cost wise.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          using the bulb limiter test the bulb flashed out and it popped the fuse on the furman power conditioner...
                          What power conditioner?

                          When using a bulb limiter the amp gets plugged straightn into it and the limiter straight on the wall socket.

                          And no fuses blow, because the bulb is the "fuse".

                          And the options are :
                          * no glow whatsoever, even a blink: open (unless the bub is way too large for , say, a wall wart or preamp transformer and current is too small to do anything visible)
                          * dull red or orange blow: normal
                          * short blink: PS capacitors charging or, in a large transformer, core initial magnetizing; reads as "probably good"
                          * bright filament: reads as shorted transformer, or at least grossly mismatched voltage (110V primary in 220V line).

                          yours blinking (which means it was NOT open) and then going OFF (because the "conditioner" fuse blew) makes thisresult inconclusive.

                          Please repeat it just one more time (sorry ), and with a not too large bulb , say 40 to 60W.
                          Even if shorted, current limited by the bulb will not allow it to overheat, smoke, etc. , at least for the couple minutes the test will take.

                          That said, overheating and smelling bad are BAD signs, but more than that I'm worried they happened at all, it shouldn't when using a bulb limiter what makes me wonder if we are not communicating properly.

                          Besides repairing an amp, we are talking safety here.

                          Take care
                          Juan Manuel Fahey

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by 52 Bill View Post
                            Another possible rewind or replacement source would be Edcor Transformers. They tend to be the most reasonable cost wise.
                            Good idea. Best to shop around. Here is contact info for Edcor, and also for Magnetic Components.

                            https://edcorusa.com/contactus

                            Magnetic Components, Inc. Home Page
                            Originally posted by Enzo
                            I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Heat and smoke are not good signs, lol. I'm still at a loss at how the transformer can draw current with an "open" primary and no short to the core with the secondaries floating?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by olddawg View Post
                                Heat and smoke are not good signs, lol. I'm still at a loss at how the transformer can draw current with an "open" primary and no short to the core with the secondaries floating?
                                The primary is not open. See post #13. It's my best guess that the secondary LV winding is shorted since it reads lower resistance than the filament winding which is lower voltage.
                                "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

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