Vintage fender sidekick tube 20r 1986 model burnt resistors! R57 R58

[neilemborgo7]

Good day!

So I accidentally plugged my amp to a 110V power outlet.

The amp required 100V ONLY!

It worked (for a while) then smoke came out from the back and the volume dropped down to barely audible.

I opened the amp. Checked the fuse, tubes, caps, etc.

I found out that the resistors R57 and R58 were burnt.


Problem is, I don't know the values of these two Resistors. Can't rely on the color coding either because they turned black. I can't replace them without their values.

I searched the internet for Schematics but found nothing.
I emailed fender but still they have nothing.

Fender:

Jeremy Ault (Fender)

May 22, 12:41 MST

It's for us to say what the values would be since we lack the proper documentation. Unfortunately, since this amp was produced around a transitional period when CBS sold Fender in the Mid 1980s none of that information was transferred and we were not able to reacquire it while we rebuilt the company. I apologize we could not be of more assistance

Jeremy Ault

Representative, Consumer Relations /U.S. Direct
Sales

Fender Musical Instruments Corp.
17600 N. Perimeter Drive, Suite 100
Scottsdale, AZ 85255
Telephone: 480-845-5140
Fax: 480-367-5262

I'm not an amp expert and I badly need help. Thank you!

All photos are in here : https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ng...KWqcuhH7YRlT4A

[DrGonz78]

To me it looks like those burnt up resistors are probably dropping resistors for the lower voltage preamp supply. D10 & D9 appear to burnt up a bit too and it would not surprise me if those diodes test open or shorted. D10 & D9 most likely are 15v or 16v zener diodes that connect to R57 & R58 that regulate the, typically, -/+15v preamp voltages. Now did they burn up when IC's went bad down stream and pulled too much current? Those resistors could be 1 watt with a resistance value of 220-1000 ohms, but it is very difficult to say for certain without knowing what the higher voltage is that it is dropping down. Hopefully you may find someone with this amp that is willing to take pictures of the inside of the amp. Still there could be other components damaged in the amp and simply replacing those components might not fully fix the amp. I would read up on light bulb limiters so you can build one if you decide to go about fixing this amp.

[Randall]

Where are you located where you have the choice of 100 or 110v operation?

Is it me, or does +10v seem like not enough to smoke an amp?

[The Dude]

Agree with both. I don't think 10V would kill it. And, I'm betting something is shorted- maybe zeners. I know the resistors are burnt, but did you try to measure them (at least the least burnt one)? Maybe that would give us a clue- if not value, maybe at least an upper resistance limit.

P.S. When did I get old enough that a 1986 amp was considered vintage?

[nosaj]

Where are you located where you have the choice of 100 or 110v operation?

Is it me, or does +10v seem like not enough to smoke an amp?

Japan I believe uses 100v.

nosaj

[Leo_Gnardo]

Japan I believe uses 100v.

nosaj

And I can't recall any other nation or area that uses 100 VAC as standard power. There has been a butt load of "grey market" gear shipped from there since the 1980's. It was such a problem I recall Yamaha refused warranty service on popular DX7 keyboards that had been acquired thru grey market channels. 110 yes seems hardly enough to worry, but we're mostly 120V in the USA, with some locations sporting line voltage closer to 130 - that would be enough to raise hob with a 100V rated item. Imagine plugging your standard 120V amp into 140-150V. That would let the smoke out of the wires right quick.

[olddawg]

I would bet that’s a Japan model. I used to work on a lot of greymarket stuff in the 80s... I’ve rarely seen Japan market stuff that wouldn’t work in the USA.. You can get problems over time with heat dissipation. Usually the only difference between a USA model is the transformer. Can you look at the schematic of a similar USA amp? Btw.. that response sounds like bs..

[Leo_Gnardo]

that response sounds like bs..

Indeed. Either Fender is being polite about not wanting to deal with an obvious grey market piece, or doesn't want to waste time supplying info on a 30+ year old amp that would be sold with a DNR notice to repair centers in the current day. Either way, an old amp fixed equals a new amp not sold, from the point of view of any company's marketing executive. Sounds harsh but that's bizness. Fender executives must be grinding their teeth into powder thinking about the amps made 1950-1990.

[nosaj]

Indeed. Either Fender is being polite about not wanting to deal with an obvious grey market piece, or doesn't want to waste time supplying info on a 30+ year old amp that would be sold with a DNR notice to repair centers in the current day. Either way, an old amp fixed equals a new amp not sold, from the point of view of any company's marketing executive. Sounds harsh but that's bizness. Fender executives must be grinding their teeth into powder thinking about the amps made 1950-1990.

Well a search turns up no schematic for the 20r but we get the 15, 25, 35, 65 here https://music-electronics-forum.com/...ad.php?t=33010
nosaj

[Randall]

"P.S. When did I get old enough that a 1986 amp was considered vintage?"

You took the words right out of my brain.

[Leo_Gnardo]

"P.S. When did I get old enough that a 1986 amp was considered vintage?"

You took the words right out of my brain.

Sometimes when I'm writing a check (how 20th century...) I have to catch myself before writing 1980-something onto the date area. Geeze, seems like yesterday. All this new-fangled stuff sure is amazin' ! I gotta catch up with the kids and get me a pocket computer.

[teemuk]

Try contacting Elk Electronic Industries instead. After all, that is the company who manufactured these amps for Fender Japan, Ltd., which - BTW - was entirely different business entity than the Fender Musical Instruments Corp. (FMIC) established in 1985 when CBS sold the Fender trademark and product inventory to some of the company's former executives and a bunch of investors. Yes, the trademark and product inventory. Not any of the factories, and even the product inventory was largely consisting of the cheap Japanese-made products.

Fender Japan, Ltd. was established few years before any of this, in 1981 while Fender was still in CBS ownership. Fender executives simply realized they could not compete with cheap Japanese-made clones of Fender products flooding the markets. And when you can't beat them, you join them. Fender Japan was a joint venture with Kanda Shokai Corp. and Yamano Gakki, two big names in Japanese retail and wholesale business. The business model was basically based around finding various "OEM" manufacturers (Elk being the most prominent one) that could produce cheap products carrying the Fender trademark. They started with guitars and then expanded to amps producing series such as the "Sidekick", "Squier", "R.A.D.", "FAT", and et cetera. You know, the "cheap" stuff. Some of these Fender products were never even imported outside Japan.

No, I don't find it at all hard to believe that FMIC didn't receveive all technical literature and IP related to each and every product that Fender Japan, Ltd. had "manufactured". Why would have they? The companies were largely independent business entities and FMIC had merely bought a trademark and bunch of old import products. Besides Fender Japan largely just contracted production of Fender products to third parties.

[nosaj]

Try contacting Elk Electronic Industries instead. After all, that is the company who manufactured these amps for Fender Japan, Ltd., which - BTW - was entirely different business entity than the Fender Musical Instruments Corp. (FMIC) established in 1985 when CBS sold the Fender trademark and product inventory to some of the company's former executives and a bunch of investors. Yes, the trademark and product inventory. Not any of the factories, and even the product inventory was largely consisting of the cheap Japanese-made products.

Fender Japan, Ltd. was established few years before any of this, in 1981 while Fender was still in CBS ownership. Fender executives simply realized they could not compete with cheap Japanese-made clones of Fender products flooding the markets. And when you can't beat them, you join them. Fender Japan was a joint venture with Kanda Shokai Corp. and Yamano Gakki, two big names in Japanese retail and wholesale business. The business model was basically based around finding various "OEM" manufacturers (Elk being the most prominent one) that could produce cheap products carrying the Fender trademark. They started with guitars and then expanded to amps producing series such as the "Sidekick", "Squier", "R.A.D.", "FAT", and et cetera. You know, the "cheap" stuff. Some of these Fender products were never even imported outside Japan.

No, I don't find it at all hard to believe that FMIC didn't receveive all technical literature and IP related to each and every product that Fender Japan, Ltd. had "manufactured". Why would have they? The companies were largely independent business entities and FMIC had merely bought a trademark and bunch of old import products. Besides Fender Japan largely just contracted production of Fender products to third parties.

Excellent information there teemuk, thanks for sharing.

nosaj

[neilemborgo7]

I was born 1997. so for me, 1986 is quite vintage.

[neilemborgo7]

I'm in the Philippines. Got this amp from U.S.A