Infernal problem- soldering.

[Pedro Vecino]

I'd bet you've had your iron for 10 years, changed the tip maybe once..

I don't know if I understand well (my English is terrible) but I use three or four every year. Sometimes, even though the tip is functional, I change it because the job requires it. To use desoldering mesh on Mesa amps, for example.

[Sea Chief]

I don't know if I understand well (my English is terrible) but I use three or four every year. Sometimes, even though the tip is functional, I change it because the job requires it. To use desoldering mesh on Mesa amps, for example.

Hi Pedro.

So a good qwuestion then might be: why & when do you change it-? have you ever experienced any of my symptoms I have detailed-?

I'm sure for a professional, or a very enthusiastic amateur they might get through a few per year. But I am at the opposite end of time spent using one- rarely.

[Pedro Vecino]

First of all, I don't use soldering stations. I use a 25 watt soldering iron (although I always have two identical replacement parts because sometimes I have run into nasty surprises). I must also say that the tips I use are 1mm for everything, which inevitably leads to faster wear.
Before seeing appreciable problems with any type of solder, I see it with the desoldering mesh. Minuscule fissures on the tip, lack of rounding and uniformity in its surface complicate its use. The litmus test is on the double-sided printed circuits.
As I understand it, the tips are coated with rather special alloys that contain chromium, molybdenum, niobium, or similar metals, and when they wear out, the tip is no longer effective. It rejects tin. Because of its ease of oxidation I think. More cracks = more surface to rust. By insisting a lot something is achieved, but the time I dedicate to it is what tells me that the tip is not in good condition.
It can also happen (I'm sure I'm not discovering anything) that the elements to be welded are not clean. It has the same effect. Occurs with eyelets, turrets, terminals of certain electrolytic capacitors, etc.). In that case, the solution I use is scraping. With a small triangular file, a wire brush or similar.
Nor do I use flux, although I have kept some resin stones for forty years that all they do is dirty what they touch. Good tin has good flux inside it and I don't need more.
It is very likely that this system that I use is not the most recommended. But maybe the memory of the endless fights with the soldering iron and the tin from when he started with it had something to do with it.
This is the material I use. The best I have found.

https://www.reboul.fr/catalogue/outi...f_1002706.html
https://www.reboul.fr/catalogue/outi...f_1020386.html
https://www.reboul.fr/catalogue/outi...f_1025681.html
https://www.reboul.fr/catalogue/outi...f_1001647.html

[Sea Chief]

First of all, I don't use soldering stations. I use a 25 watt soldering iron (although I always have two identical replacement parts because sometimes I have run into nasty surprises). I must also say that the tips I use are 1mm for everything, which inevitably leads to faster wear.
Before seeing appreciable problems with any type of solder, I see it with the desoldering mesh. Minuscule fissures on the tip, lack of rounding and uniformity in its surface complicate its use. The litmus test is on the double-sided printed circuits.
As I understand it, the tips are coated with rather special alloys that contain chromium, molybdenum, niobium, or similar metals, and when they wear out, the tip is no longer effective. It rejects tin. Because of its ease of oxidation I think. More cracks = more surface to rust. By insisting a lot something is achieved, but the time I dedicate to it is what tells me that the tip is not in good condition.
It can also happen (I'm sure I'm not discovering anything) that the elements to be welded are not clean. It has the same effect. Occurs with eyelets, turrets, terminals of certain electrolytic capacitors, etc.). In that case, the solution I use is scraping. With a small triangular file, a wire brush or similar.
Nor do I use flux, although I have kept some resin stones for forty years that all they do is dirty what they touch. Good tin has good flux inside it and I don't need more.
It is very likely that this system that I use is not the most recommended. But maybe the memory of the endless fights with the soldering iron and the tin from when he started with it had something to do with it.
This is the material I use. The best I have found.

https://www.reboul.fr/catalogue/outi...f_1002706.html
https://www.reboul.fr/catalogue/outi...f_1020386.html
https://www.reboul.fr/catalogue/outi...f_1025681.html
https://www.reboul.fr/catalogue/outi...f_1001647.html

Hi Pedro- much appreciate your thoughts. Some very useful info there. Once again it seems like a consensus that the surface of the tip has eroded then.

This seems like the case to me. Why this happens to me tho, 100x more frequently than everyone else, is still unanswered & what I'm trying to pin down though. Maybe I can never answer it I don't know.

--

Ok with my solder station, there's only 1 tip replacement (or I'd have tried to get a bigger end/ perhaps, a bigger end might have meant more of a chance -with muggins here- of lasting more than 2 weeks). So I have no alternative but buy another. Yet again. And the same situation will happen all over again.

So, in order to give it every possible chance of not 'burning out' in 2 weeks.. & putting the supposition that it is -my- using it that -somehow- is leading to this rapis disintegration of every iron's tip similarly-so.. I need to completely re-evaluate how I use a soldering iron & ask questions. I need to swallow my pride & go back to day1 of solder school, & asses everything I can do to keep this wretched tip's coating from eroding.

Only then it seems (if it stays ok) can I answer the Q of why mine have always died so quick (but it'll do the same again- I am 99% certain of it).

--

So, Q1) I have the sponge. I wet it then wring it mostly out. How & when do I use this?

[Chuck H]

sponge should only be damp, not wet. I soak mine then squeeze all the excess water out.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And I'll add that you probably shouldn't use tap water or even bottled water. They both have minerals and other crud in them that will leave deposits on the tip instantly as they evaporate water. Mineral deposits on the tip will ultimately collect and hold more grungy old flux and keep the tip dirty. Use distilled water if you can. I admit that I get lazy and use tap water, but this is how I know this. Because the water where I live is especially hard and crappy. So... JM2C

I like 700 deg. Too cool and the solder won't melt well, too hot and tips don't last..

And this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I use 710 deg F. Close to the same. Since I've mostly worked on old tube amps I find the extra 10 deg mitigates having to hold the hot tip on really old solder joints for too long. That and the added dab of fresh solder thing usually gets me through it. It's easy to ruin old components, especially pots, by just holding a too cool iron tip to them for too long. The whole component heats up too much before the solder melts.

[Helmholtz]

One more trick:

Since some years I use only destilled water, which contains no scale, salts and other corrosive ions, to wet the sponge.

This has hugely increased the service life of my sponges and I think it helps with the tips too.


Edit: Missed Chuck's post above.

[Pixel]

I don't know if I've seen a soldering iron tip in that condition before. The tip should be shiny with solder. Tin the tip as soon as you install it, don't let it oxidize and get dull.

Have you watched other people solder? Try watching some youtube videos...I like this one. I watched it twice...

https://youtu.be/ZwU9SqO0udU

[Sea Chief]

I don't know if I've seen a soldering iron tip in that condition before. The tip should be shiny with solder. Tin the tip as soon as you install it, don't let it oxidize and get dull.

Have you watched other people solder? Try watching some youtube videos...I like this one. I watched it twice...

https://youtu.be/ZwU9SqO0udU

This is the thing. Nor have I. But with every best intent I give it, within a few goes.. each one ends up looking like this.

If I have a tip that will take solder (not reject it/ tiny balls appear fall off the tip & refuse to stick/ or the solder wire just gets stuck to the tip.. either of these happens only after a few goes, with each iron/ tip/ I've ever bought).. then -of course- I will tin it with utmost care.

But if after a few goes of using the iron, the tip starts to go grey like my photos (as always happens.. hence my thread), even with the utmost care/ diligence that I give it.... then I cannot tin it. The tip is useless. I have to bin it. And round & round I go. Spending fortunes on tips/ irons.

The question, of why my tips go grey after just a few goes > therefore it cannot melt solder wire > therefore you simply cannot tin it > therefore it is unuseable... is with all respect & appreciation for reading my spiel & with the helpful replies.. I'm not sure still actually answered. I'm not sure it can be answered now or ever then.

--

Again, just to reitterate: I am not a newbie asking how to solder. I have built amps, complicated/ tricky circuits, many pedals with a multitude of tiny solders to do etc etc etc. I am perfectly able to solder. How did I achieve this then? because, for some reason, the iron/ tip was working (obviously) so I made use of it in this working state & ploughed on until the innevitable "brick wall" stopped me from continuing/ I had not one second of a struggle for maybe 2 weeks whilst I completed the job. Exactly as you would. No different whatsoever. I dilligently cleaned the tip before & after each solder, gently, nothing abrasive, checked/ briefly inspected it for any excess solder > in its stand.

The only difference me to you.. is as per usual, after 2 weeks, my tip went grey/ brick wall/ iron useless. You.. you just continue on, the tip continues to work.

[Sea Chief]

The tip in the photo, I used for a few 'light-use-goes' goes only. It's actually pretty new. If I have to spend £6 every other time I use the iron on yet another new tip, something is seriously amiss. This is not right.

It could be a rubbish iron. But if this unfathomable issue follows me, for 20 yrs, iron to different iron, 25w, 40w, station types, all manner of ones Ive had to buy to try try try rid this f***king cursed thing happening only to me... then it's not this particular iron.

If I clean it perfectectly normally, adequately, then this is not the cause. If the cursed issue thing follows me from property to property, totally different atmopspherics.. then it's neither the water here, nor perhaps an unusually high 'moisture in the air content' issue (which is far off track to consider anyway).

So, I have discounted all reasonable reasons why it is happening. So far as I can ascertain. But still it persists.

---

I am only asking back to basic Q's (sponge use etc) ONLY as a way of ticking off/ checking all the obvious boxes to discount my technique as being at fault. I am not asking these basics-Q's, because I do not know how to solder.

If a competant race car driver has the car suddenly stop, for reasons unknown to him/ her, it is not incumbent on anyone observing.. that they should state/ determine therefore that "he/ she suddenly does not know how to drive the car" even if they've got out scratching their head perhaps suggesting they might suddenly have had such an enormous spontaneous brain-fart as to not understand what the 3 pedal things are for.

[Pixel]

Again, just to reitterate: I am not a newbie asking how to solder. I have built amps, complicated/ tricky circuits, many pedals with a multitude of tiny solders to do etc etc etc. I am perfectly able to solder. How did I achieve this then? because, for some reason, the iron/ tip was working (obviously) so I made use of it in this working state & ploughed on until the innevitable "brick wall" stopped me from continuing/ I had not one second of a struggle for maybe 2 weeks whilst I completed the job. Exactly as you would. No different whatsoever. I dilligently cleaned the tip before & after each solder, gently, nothing abrasive, checked/ briefly inspected it for any excess solder > in its stand.

The only difference me to you.. is as per usual, after 2 weeks, my tip went grey/ brick wall/ iron useless. You.. you just continue on, the tip continues to work.

No disrespect intended to you or your experience. It is just that in cases like these it is useful to watch someone else do the job because you might pick up something that they are doing without thinking about it. In software development we often pair people at the same desk so they can learn from each other. Maybe you can skype with someone on this thread and watch each other solder. I'd do it but frankly this is not my day job and I'm learning from this thread too.

[nosaj]

I dont understand why you'd say a different iron would suit me better- if (with respect) you don't know what things I'm using it for. A different iron, as I've said from the start too having had many, makes no difference: the same problem occurs whatever iron I have ever had. Different shape tips I've bought too. From a better quality one than this (a UK made weller station- really solid iron) exactly same thing/ had to bin it. From this through many types like the 'medium quality one now', right down to a cheapo Faithfull £10 job. Exactly the same in each & every case, using various solders from expensive to cheapo £2 tubes: every example, the same thing happens, for 20 years without one exception. I'd bet you've had your iron for 10 years, changed the tip maybe once.

I never leave it on too, just fire it up to use for a half-hour job for eg (sections on my Twin Reverb rebuild for eg) then off. Clean the tip regularly. Worry about the tip (as you might expect) so make sure no crud on, not excessive sponge water, not scrape or use abrasive anything on the end, not excessively on for long periods. Kid gloves I treated this damn one, like all the others.

Because I started out with the same problems you are complaining about. So I showed you how I fixed my issues. And in 10 years I've had 2 soldering irons both digital temp controlled and never worn out a tip. I am not a professional but probably put in about 30hrs a month on my iron.

Digital heat controlled iron
Brass scrubber
when done coat tip in solder don't wipe it off let it harden.
nosaj

[g1]

when done coat tip in solder don't wipe it off let it harden.

This is just what I was going to add. It may be the opposite of what you would think but it's the proper thing to do. When you begin next time, wipe off and re-tin the tip.

[Pixel]

Not a controlled temperature power station by any means BUT since forever I wire a 1N5408 diode in series with my irons (I built a little junction box and plug them there) with a bypass switch (just shorting the diode), so my iron is full power while actually working but if I stop for more than a minute I switch it to low power mode.

I couldn't resist taking my cheap Radio-Shack soldering iron apart to take a peek and sure enough it has a lonely diode inside it wired to a switch. (I'm the poster-child for non-sustainability...I won a dozen of these irons for $5 on ebay and grab a new iron when I need a tip. That will change soon because I'm almost out of new irons and will need to buy some tips.)

[Chuck H]

Digital heat controlled iron

What's your go to general temp setting?

[nosaj]

396 to 400c which is about 750f Anything higher tends to give me lifted traces. Get in get out. After about 10 mins of no use it goes to sleep but that is programmable.
Its an Auyoue 937+

nosaj