Infernal problem- soldering.

[Sea Chief]

No disrespect intended to you or your experience. It is just that in cases like these it is useful to watch someone else do the job because you might pick up something that they are doing without thinking about it. In software development we often pair people at the same desk so they can learn from each other. Maybe you can skype with someone on this thread and watch each other solder. I'd do it but frankly this is not my day job and I'm learning from this thread too.

Hi Pixel. But again, I can solder. It's not that I can't do it or have any problems doing it. I can solder as well as you can, as well as Chuck, any of you. It's nothing to do with 'learning how to solder'.

The added frustration, is having to try & explain this infernal recurring problem without it simply being deemed 'he doesn't know how to solder, here's a clip "how to solder" ' (which is kind to put up on my behalf & the intent perfectly helpful.. but completely misses the point).

It has to be something that either A) the hardware is doing/ becoming degraded for reasons that I cannot influence.. or B) something that I am doing, to influence it becoming degraded. The most blindingly obvious of the two.. is B) butut I am exhaustively detailing everything I do, & nothing stands out as the eureka thing, the "bingo SC! there/ there/ you're not doing X!! or you're doing Y!!". Which is what I was hoping for.

The only thing I can think to do, to find the cause, is just to meticulously go through every facet of how I solder & type it (which is fairly simple- a sponge correctly wetted, I gently wipe the tip before & after each quick few secionds' use, inspect tip, insert into stand. I do not use anything abrasive. I do not scrape the tip. I use solder that I know works great, & I use an iron that's of medium quality/ perfectly expected to be useable/ photo I hope concurs). A checklist then that has seen me do a hundred solders, as is normal, without any sudden "brick wall grey tip will not work", as you would, Chuck would. 2 weeks of use. Then.......... it stops working.

The only difference is I have the brick wall happen after 2 weeks, the tip greys, & I come to a stop. Chuck does not. There just -has- to be a cause.

thanks chaps.

[g1]

One thing you did not mention in post #47 is how often you tin the tip with solder and whether you tin it before you park it for the day. The sponge is for right before you solder a joint. At all other times the tip should be coated with solder, not clean/dry.

[Pixel]

Hi Pixel. But again, I can solder. It's not that I can't do it or have any problems doing it. I can solder as well as you can, as well as Chuck, any of you. It's nothing to do with 'learning how to solder'.

The added frustration, is having to try & explain this infernal recurring problem without it simply being deemed 'he doesn't know how to solder, here's a clip "how to solder" ' (which is kind to put up on my behalf & the intent perfectly helpful.. but completely misses the point).

It has to be something that either A) the hardware is doing/ becoming degraded for reasons that I cannot influence.. or B) something that I am doing, to influence it becoming degraded. The most blindingly obvious of the two.. is B) butut I am exhaustively detailing everything I do, & nothing stands out as the eureka thing, the "bingo SC! there/ there/ you're not doing X!! or you're doing Y!!". Which is what I was hoping for.

The only thing I can think to do, to find the cause, is just to meticulously go through every facet of how I solder & type it (which is fairly simple- a sponge correctly wetted, I gently wipe the tip before & after each quick few secionds' use, inspect tip, insert into stand. I do not use anything abrasive. I do not scrape the tip. I use solder that I know works great, & I use an iron that's of medium quality/ perfectly expected to be useable/ photo I hope concurs). A checklist then that has seen me do a hundred solders, as is normal, without any sudden "brick wall grey tip will not work", as you would, Chuck would. 2 weeks of use. Then.......... it stops working.

The only difference is I have the brick wall happen after 2 weeks, the tip greys, & I come to a stop. Chuck does not. There just -has- to be a cause.

thanks chaps.

Okay I don't think I explained myself well enough so I'll give it one more try and then stop bothering you. I promise.

If what you are doing isn't working then you should try something else. So just watch a few videos of people soldering or have an online soldering session with someone and perhaps you will have an AHA moment. The idea is not to learn to solder, but instead to perhaps pick up on something else that is happening while people solder. Your approach to this problem has not been successful so try another approach.

[Intripped]

One thing you did not mention in post #47 is how often you tin the tip with solder and whether you tin it before you park it for the day. The sponge is for right before you solder a joint. At all other times the tip should be coated with solder, not clean/dry.

^^^
Absolutely this!

[Sea Chief]

You see look here- I can solder ok! & amp circuits don't get too much more complicated I'd have thought. A complete new board/ circuit rebuild (including a fairly unique way of "blackfacing" the circuit remodelling the rectifier config etc).

I zipped through it in 2 weeks flat out, just managing within the span of 1 tip (same station ^). And now I can't desolder 1 wire from a switch! Demoralising.

[Dave H]

I zipped through it in 2 weeks flat out, just managing within the span of 1 tip (same station ^). And now I can't desolder 1 wire from a switch! Demoralising.

Well, you've nothing to lose with that tip so try to scrape the crud off it with a Stanley blade and see if it can be re-tinned. Before attempting to de-solder the wire from the switch end feed some fresh solder onto the tip then apply the tip to the joint with some more fresh solder and the joint should then melt enabling the wire to be disconnected. Wipe the tip clean and apply a little fresh solder before parking the iron. That always works for me even with dirty old joints.

[galaxiex]

Once again... get this stuff...



https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltronic...dDbGljaz10cnVl

[Sea Chief]

Well, you've nothing to lose with that tip so try to scrape the crud off it with a Stanley blade and see if it can be re-tinned. Before attempting to de-solder the wire from the switch end feed some fresh solder onto the tip then apply the tip to the joint with some more fresh solder and the joint should then melt enabling the wire to be disconnected. Wipe the tip clean and apply a little fresh solder before parking the iron. That always works for me even with dirty old joints.

Hi Dave, read all your posts many thanks.

Indeed, nothing to lose.. I do this regularly once I come to my brick wall yet again & about to finally give up on the top, in order to maybe pls pls pls extract one last successful solder. Stanly scrape carefully, gently until copper visible, then it immediately greys over, I'm assume oxidises or the air something interacts with it, maybe its my huff ?? ( seriously.. Ive even sat there scratching my head wondering if its my breath!! Am I holy? Do I have powers? Halitosis maybe? I cup my hand to my face & do a huff hope noones looking.. nope Im clear there). Now as soon as it greys over.. its unuseable. It will not tin, because it will not melt solder. If after 10 mins holding wire ontop tip I -do- finally just get it to melt.. friction tiny solder balls fall off dry grey tip. Brick wall. Bin tip.

Ive tried everything under the sun, for 20 years. Yesterday I actually cut off the end portion of the tip, everthing down from the shiny area, with pliers, to test whether contacting the shiny section onto my solder spot.. might melt it normally, to see whether this shiny bit could in fact be intact remenants of the iron coating. But I had no conclusive result. It did melt it, but took an unusually long time.

[Sea Chief]

Once again... get this stuff...



https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltronic...dDbGljaz10cnVl

Hi galaxiex.. thanks, Ive never known of a specific dedicated tip tinner ( only ever taught or known to tin the tip by briefly touching the solder wire to the tip, so it thinly coats say 7 mm of the top end, with solder).

Anyone else use this?

What actually is it made from?

[Sea Chief]

^^^
Absolutely this!

Ok well it could be this, tha5 Im being -too- fastidious with my cleaning of it with the sponge! But I honestly find that within only a few days every tip becomes impossible to tin, so as i cant leave solder crud on it, i have no option but try & gently remove.. with the only thingI have to, the sponge.

Its these few days.. something is happening preventing the tip being able to be tinned.

[Sea Chief]

Once again... get this stuff...



https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltronic...dDbGljaz10cnVl

Hi again.. just seen the amazon link at bottom, & reading the reviews from buyers it sounds like might be the solution! Even if I cant find the actual cause of why mine are failing, maybe this will just simply prevent them doing so.

Most helpful.. apologies I missed your post if you suggested it before.

Does anyone in UK use anything specifically similar? Presuming i cant get this exact stuff here. I don't mean flux, I mean specific tip tinner stuff?

[Drummer4gc]

Once you start scraping the tip you’re on borrowed time - might get a few more solders but the protective coating is gone and the tip is about to be trash.

Get some of the tinner mentioned above and a brass wool to replace your sponge. Put on a new tip. Solder, clean the tip in the brass, immediate dip into the tinner, repeat. Big ball of solder onto the tip before turning off the iron.

[nosaj]

You see look here- I can solder ok! & amp circuits don't get too much more complicated I'd have thought. A complete new board/ circuit rebuild (including a fairly unique way of "blackfacing" the circuit remodelling the rectifier config etc).

I zipped through it in 2 weeks flat out, just managing within the span of 1 tip (same station ^). And now I can't desolder 1 wire from a switch! Demoralising.

I've got guys at work who can put hinges on doors on cabinets an g o thru several Phillip's bits in a month. Their work looks ok but their tools are worn out because of bad technique. This is reminiscent of earlier SC posts.
nosaj

[Sea Chief]

I've got guys at work who can put hinges on doors on cabinets an g o thru several Phillip's bits in a month. Their work looks ok but their tools are worn out because of bad technique. .
nosaj

Very condascending nosaj. Plus I don't think it's been established my technique is at fault either. It's easy to pick at someone on a forum who might not be as good at something they are isn't it.

With this tip tinner I hadn't known about (I'll tell once it arrives & use the tip for a few weeks.. hopefully) it seems it might have simply been the lack of one crucial tin of stuff.. rather than my technique. Why this wasn't in the picture when I was taught soldering is strange to me: I suspect the reason may be the iron tip quality was far better in general in 1995, & now so poor that you really -need- a tin of this stuff to make them any tip of 'medium quality' to last.

From the comments under the user reviews on amazon for it, there are many saying concurrently that it simply "prevents oxidisation of the tip, which if happens renders the iron completely useless" which hits my symptoms spot on. Also it regenerates old unuseable tips too.

[g1]

Once you start scraping the tip you’re on borrowed time - might get a few more solders but the protective coating is gone and the tip is about to be trash.

Get some of the tinner mentioned above and a brass wool to replace your sponge.

Well, isn't using brass wool to a certain extent scraping the tip? Maybe not so much, but more than a sponge. So I think they would shorten the tip life at least a bit?
I know lots of guys use them with good result but I just wanted to point out that there is some abrasion there.

The main reason I don't use them is I saw a video that showed the microscopic particles showering off the brass wool when wiping the tip, and my lungs are already poor. Then again, for all I know it could be the exact same thing happens with the sponge.
Don't recall where I found the link to that video, could have been this forum or another, but I've been unable to find it again. Anyone have the link?